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ACTUAL controversial opinions
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Koolaid wrote:
Lemon wrote:
religion is not a choice = the only religions i know are christianity n islam
i mean elaborate if u want
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Date: 01-01-2022 14:44
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Koolaid wrote:
everyone who disagrees is like 'lol these takes are so bad but im not gonna explain why' like pls explain, my opinions are not set into stone or anything. this is not e****skies
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Date: 01-01-2022 14:44
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Lemon wrote:
Koolaid wrote:
Lemon wrote:
religion is not a choice = the only religions i know are christianity n islam
i mean elaborate if u want
the comment was enough of an elaboration imo
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Date: 01-01-2022 14:45
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Koolaid wrote:
Lemon wrote:
Koolaid wrote:
Lemon wrote:
religion is not a choice = the only religions i know are christianity n islam
i mean elaborate if u want
the comment was enough of an elaboration imo
well ok, i do know more religions than that.
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Date: 01-01-2022 14:45
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Lemon wrote:
majority of the mainstream religions in the world revolve around "you HAVE to believe this, or you'll straight up go to hell" mentality
but if we apply this to every religion it is straight up not true, many other religions and beliefs exist so religion is indeed a choice matter in its core
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Date: 01-01-2022 14:48
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Sylvan wrote:
Koolaid wrote:
Sylvan wrote:
kinda scared for your opinion on nb people lol
@Sylvan i copied this from someone else cause they said it rlly well and i honestly can't say it better so;

I know this is an extremely delicate issue, and I truly do not want to hurt anyone, but I get so frustrated with the way that the LGBT community talks about gender.One of my issues is this idea that gender is some innate spectrum of feelings thal exists in nature, rather than a social construct.

But what would "woman" even feel like? How would you define or even vaguely describe this innate sense of feeling that makes one a woman? It doesn't exist. And nobody perfectly conforms to societal expectations of gender, especially the rigid, performative standards of femininity.

I remember back in 2020 sccing a video of aperson asking if they were not a woman, but instead non-binary,because they don't feel an innate, personal connection with she/ her pronouns, it justnever bothered them to be referred to as she/her, and they didn't think about it until they "realized" they were supposed to. But that's literally being a cis person. Nobody is innately connected to socially constructed, gendered language.

So now, we have people who are completely indistinguishable from gender conforming cispeople in literally every way except labels, calling themselves trans. And I don't think it's right to appropriate the label of an incredibly oppressed minority with very specific material needs, turning it into an abstract identity that literally anyone and everyone can choose to fit into

They do not face any form of transphobia or transmisogyny, nor do they have the same material needs as trans people, simply because they don't feel a particular way.


And I totally understand rejecting gender as an abolitionist, political position! But it doesn't necessarily make you a member of an opressed minority.
I think that's an incredible oversimplification,

For a start, many nb people have dysphoria. I do.
Like I agree to an extent as to why someone who has no dysphoria at all (social and physical), likes representing in a way that is 100% conforming with their gab and doesn't mind being called strongly gendered terms  that are conforming with their agab 'needs' to call themselves trans and what possible benefit they could have from that label.
But there are many trans people who don't fit in the male/female category. It's hard to have dysphoria and your gab just doesn't fit so you try to squeeze yourself in the other available box but that's not right either and you experience mental distress. Ever since I stopped trying to fit into those two boxes, I feel better. Bonus level for intersex people who literally have physical attributes of male and female phenotype (or whatever, I'm no biologist)  and need to choose one and reject their biology in order to fit into this monstrosity we call binary that human societies grew ever since we settled down and became farmers and populations grew a lot, and we started to exploit the planet.
It would be easy to say 'sex is real, gender is just a social construct, and we should abolish it, facts before feelings'.
The thing is, that's just not what we are. We are defined by our feelings. Now more than ever we are no physical  species. We survived because we had empathy with others, we developed myths, art, religion, stories to keep us alive. People outside that binary existed for thousands of years and I think it would be dangerous to oppress something this inherent in humans. This person argues about how it is disrespectful to an 'incredibly oppressed minority' but what good would police trans people and separating them into 'real' and 'fake' trans people do? We had this pathologizing of the trans 'condition' in the past (buffalo bill much) and I just don't think it's the way forward to go back to this.
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Date: 01-01-2022 14:50 | Times changed: 1
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Koolaid wrote:
Lemon wrote:
majority of the mainstream religions in the world revolve around "you HAVE to believe this, or you'll straight up go to hell" mentality
but if we apply this to every religion it is straight up not true, many other religions and beliefs exist so religion is indeed a choice matter in its core
yes those are valid points. i am mainly talking about organized religion (but also not all organized religion is bad).

but i feel that in general, religion is a 'choice' in the same way that culture is a choice. most of the time you are born into it. 

but for example, buddhism and wiccan religions are way less problematic than christianity/islam, so that's why these religions rarely get talked about. so they kind of fall to the background.
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Date: 01-01-2022 14:51
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Sylvan wrote:
Koolaid wrote:
Lemon wrote:
Koolaid wrote:
i mean elaborate if u want
the comment was enough of an elaboration imo
well ok, i do know more religions than that.
they probably meant that in the case of eg judaism you have ethno-religions and people who persecute you don't give a fuck if you think of atheism as your world view.
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Posts: 18295
Date: 01-01-2022 14:52
Sol
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Sol wrote:
by inventing more genders you are only reaffirming the gender binary's existence

can u explain this to me? i feel non binary i think so not sure how being a different gender than (fe)male is enforcing the gender binary ! 
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Posts: 1245
Date: 01-01-2022 14:55
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Koolaid wrote:
Sylvan wrote:
Koolaid wrote:x
I think that's an incredible oversimplification,

For a start, many nb people have dysphoria. I do.
Like I agree to an extent as to why someone who has no dysphoria at all (social and physical), likes representing in a way that is 100% conforming with their gab and doesn't mind being called strongly gendered terms  that are conforming with their agab 'needs' to call themselves trans and what possible benefit they could have from that label.
But there are many trans people who don't fit in the male/female category. It's hard to have dysphoria and your gab just doesn't fit so you try to squeeze yourself in the other available box but that's not right either and you experience mental distress. Ever since I stopped fitting into those two boxes, I feel better. Bonus level for intersex people who literally have physical attributes of male and female phenotype (or whatever, I'm no biologist)  and need to choose one and reject their biology in order to fit into this monstrosity we call binary that human societies grew ever since we settled down and became farmers and populations grew a lot, and we started to exploit the planet.
It would be easy to say 'sex is real, gender is just a social construct, and we should abolish it, facts before feelings'.
The thing is, that's just not what we are. We are defined by our feelings. Now more than ever we are no physical  species. We survived because we had empathy with others, we developed myths, art, religion, stories to keep us alive. People outside that binary existed for thousands of years and I think it would be dangerous to oppress something this inherent in humans. This person argues about how it is disrespectful to an 'incredibly oppressed minority' but what good would police trans people and separating them into 'real' and 'fake' trans people do? We had this pathologizing of the trans 'condition' in the past (buffalo bill much) and I just don't think it's the way forward to go back to this.

i can def understand your viewpoint.


'But there are many trans people who don't fit in the male/female category. '

to me the question is, what does feeling like a male or female mean? i also don't feel like a woman. i don't think there is such a thing. because we are socially raised to become woman/man.


'People outside that binary existed for thousands of years and I think it would be dangerous to oppress something this inherent in humans.'

yes that's true, in other cultures across different times, the gender construct has been different. but when i talk about gender only having 2 now (man, woman) i am talking about our (mostly) westernized society. we recognize these genders and assign social expectations of them. women are from venus men are from mars etc. that doesn't happen with other neogenders.


'but what good would police trans people and separating them into 'real' and 'fake' trans people do?'

i def don't agree w policing transness, i also said in a later comment that i would never go up to someone and deny their gender. so i completely agree w u on that. my idea is gender abolition, which in turn also means, any x-gender.
17
Posts: 14620
Date: 01-01-2022 14:58
Sol
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Sol wrote:
Sol wrote:
by inventing more genders you are only reaffirming the gender binary's existence

can u explain this to me? i feel non binary i think so not sure how being a different gender than (fe)male is enforcing the gender binary ! 
nvm, i see theres already a discussion gojng on about this!
i agree with sylvan abt the dysphoria etc, though o think koolaid has valid points as well 
14
Posts: 1245
Date: 01-01-2022 14:58
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wrote:
"i don't feel like a typical woman ergo i must be a man/nb"
you don't identify with the stereotypes around the female sex that has been inscribed into ppl's mind by society, that doesn't mean you still aren't a woman?

i don't wear makeup, wear frilly dresses, walk, speak or act like 'typical' women on screen, in media or like the women around me, does that mean i'm not a woman? that i'm something else?
or that i can exist as a woman who doesn't conform to society's idea of what a woman should or shouldn't be?
Date: 01-01-2022 14:59
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Koolaid wrote:
Sol wrote:
by inventing more genders you are only reaffirming the gender binary's existence

can u explain this to me? i feel non binary i think so not sure how being a different gender than (fe)male is enforcing the gender binary ! 
@Sol sure! so this is my viewpoint: there are only 2 genders we as a society believe in (as social constructs). we assign meaning to these genders using stereotypes, expectations, definitions etc.

what is the definition of nb? someone who doesn't feel like a woman or man. but what does feeling like a woman mean in the first place? it probably means you don't identify with aforementioned stereotypes and expectations. but that doesn't make you not a woman. or well, since i believe in gender abolition, i don't think we should let these genders dictate our lives at all. to me, they shouldn't exist, at all.
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Posts: 14620
Date: 01-01-2022 15:00
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Koolaid wrote:
Sol wrote:
Sol wrote:
by inventing more genders you are only reaffirming the gender binary's existence

can u explain this to me? i feel non binary i think so not sure how being a different gender than (fe)male is enforcing the gender binary ! 
nvm, i see theres already a discussion gojng on about this!
i agree with sylvan abt the dysphoria etc, though o think koolaid has valid points as well 
o haha oops i already replied xd
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Posts: 14620
Date: 01-01-2022 15:00
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Koolaid wrote:
maybe bc im autistic i get even more confused abt gender (not to pull the neurodivergent card but autistic ppl do struggle w arbitrary concepts like gender). i do understand why it exists since history and tradition and culture and human nature and blabla, but i think all these new gender identities just confuse me insanely. because it seems to me so random, and idk, meaningless that i just cannot fathom it. like it physically hurts. life was already complicated enough when we had 2 genders sad
17
Posts: 14620
Date: 01-01-2022 15:04
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