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Alam
World Famous



Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Yes, I re-read and explained what they said about its uses on prostate cancer, but your translator got it wrong

Perhaps because I don't really find it safe for a kid to take hormones (as a kid, you're going through different phases and I find it ridiculous to try to give the kid hormones when you don't really know if they may feel the same way in a few years. + you can not really reverse most effects, which could worsen the situation).
What I find understandable is that you start giving them hormones when they've been through puberty and are now perhaps even adults and can take a decision and understand the risks. 
I believe that they should get a (severe? I don't know how to describe it) therapy to treat the dysphoria while the kid keeps growing and understanding different concepts before taking anything. 
Let the kid dress and express how they want first and see if they're actually just GNC kids. If not, then hormone treatment
That's what puberty blockers are for, and they're not as dangerous as you make them seem, you just need to make sure to take supplements and workout.
As for the last part, I kind of agree? People should get therapy for their dysphoria but getting hormones isn't as easy as you may think. It's FUCKING HARD, it takes a long time and a lot of confirmation from experts in the field.
I'm talking about side effects. Professionals say that it's safe in general, but there can also be side effects that can truly affect badly the kid who takes puberty blockers (https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/transgender-center/puberty-blockers)

And of course, getting hormones isn't that easy, but it also doesn't take *that* much to get them (at least here, but there may be more strict rules? in other places)
Okay, but let's discuss what you're trying to say by stating these facts. Are you trying to back up the claim that trans people shouldn't transition? Are you trying to keep trans people safe? Because it sounds an awful lot like the former.
20
Posts: 23097
Date: 10-07-2020 21:24
Alam
World Famous



Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Yes, there can be misleading info about transgender deaths, but there's also studies that talk about their mortality and they have many common traits, some being (obviously) discrimination, but also for immunodeficiency syndrome, cardiovascular diseases, etc.

I still would like to know what you think about the last paragraph that I wrote
Hi! I'm trans and I'd rather die and pass than live and not be on hormones. 
But you're not a kid, so as long as you're an adult and understand the risks, I don't care what you take. If it makes your dysphoria get better, then I'm glad about it ! 
I am 16 so huh
20
Posts: 23097
Date: 10-07-2020 21:24
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
Alam wrote:
Claire wrote:
Alam wrote:
That's true, that's why I take calcium supplements and workout. There, fixed.
So it’s incorrect for you to say something like there’s no incredibly harmful side effects right? What would be correct to say is that you’re aware of the potentially harmful side effects and do your best to mitigate them with lifestyle choices. I think it’s dangerous to be misleading about these things. 
I said it's harmful myself. You know there are doctors involved in people going on blockers that know what they're doing, right? Also, what are you calling a lifestyle choice here? I hope you're not saying what I think you're saying.
And like saying doctors are always right or infallible isn’t the best either imo. Like doctors used to hand out lobotomies too. Science is something that changes and progresses and grows and giving hormones to young people for gender transitions is a relatively new scientific endeavor. I think it’s good to be skeptical and really consider this when choosing to transition. I think talking about doctors like they’re somehow always right is just not great. Like doctors are smart people who (usually) make the best choices that they can with the information that they have but it’s fair if someone thinks there isn’t enough information in this particular section of medicine. I think a lot more research needs to be done. 
21
Posts: 55745
Date: 10-07-2020 21:26
BEWAREARTEMIS
National Star



BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
That's what puberty blockers are for, and they're not as dangerous as you make them seem, you just need to make sure to take supplements and workout.
As for the last part, I kind of agree? People should get therapy for their dysphoria but getting hormones isn't as easy as you may think. It's FUCKING HARD, it takes a long time and a lot of confirmation from experts in the field.
I'm talking about side effects. Professionals say that it's safe in general, but there can also be side effects that can truly affect badly the kid who takes puberty blockers (https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/transgender-center/puberty-blockers)

And of course, getting hormones isn't that easy, but it also doesn't take *that* much to get them (at least here, but there may be more strict rules? in other places)
Okay, but let's discuss what you're trying to say by stating these facts. Are you trying to back up the claim that trans people shouldn't transition? Are you trying to keep trans people safe? Because it sounds an awful lot like the former.
I backup the idea that kids (perhaps before they're, let's say, 16 or so, since there's less limitations on what you can do when you turn 16) should not transition at such an early age, since they can actually not be transgender and that could worsen their situation
15
Posts: 2206
Date: 10-07-2020 21:26
BEWAREARTEMIS
National Star



BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
Hi! I'm trans and I'd rather die and pass than live and not be on hormones. 
But you're not a kid, so as long as you're an adult and understand the risks, I don't care what you take. If it makes your dysphoria get better, then I'm glad about it ! 
I am 16 so huh
Well, then not an adult, but you still are more responsible of what you do and take
15
Posts: 2206
Date: 10-07-2020 21:27
Alam
World Famous



Alam wrote:
Claire wrote:
Alam wrote:
Claire wrote:
So it’s incorrect for you to say something like there’s no incredibly harmful side effects right? What would be correct to say is that you’re aware of the potentially harmful side effects and do your best to mitigate them with lifestyle choices. I think it’s dangerous to be misleading about these things. 
I said it's harmful myself. You know there are doctors involved in people going on blockers that know what they're doing, right? Also, what are you calling a lifestyle choice here? I hope you're not saying what I think you're saying.
And like saying doctors are always right or infallible isn’t the best either imo. Like doctors used to hand out lobotomies too. Science is something that changes and progresses and grows and giving hormones to young people for gender transitions is a relatively new scientific endeavor. I think it’s good to be skeptical and really consider this when choosing to transition. I think talking about doctors like they’re somehow always right is just not great. Like doctors are smart people who (usually) make the best choices that they can with the information that they have but it’s fair if someone thinks there isn’t enough information in this particular section of medicine. I think a lot more research needs to be done. 
I agree.
20
Posts: 23097
Date: 10-07-2020 21:27
Alam
World Famous



Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
I'm talking about side effects. Professionals say that it's safe in general, but there can also be side effects that can truly affect badly the kid who takes puberty blockers (https://www.stlouischildrens.org/conditions-treatments/transgender-center/puberty-blockers)

And of course, getting hormones isn't that easy, but it also doesn't take *that* much to get them (at least here, but there may be more strict rules? in other places)
Okay, but let's discuss what you're trying to say by stating these facts. Are you trying to back up the claim that trans people shouldn't transition? Are you trying to keep trans people safe? Because it sounds an awful lot like the former.
I backup the idea that kids (perhaps before they're, let's say, 16 or so, since there's less limitations on what you can do when you turn 16) should not transition at such an early age, since they can actually not be transgender and that could worsen their situation
Most of the time people don't transition medically at a younger age than 16, I personally have never heard of a ten year old going on hormones because ten year-olds have not started puberty yet, so....
20
Posts: 23097
Date: 10-07-2020 21:29
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
Okay, but let's discuss what you're trying to say by stating these facts. Are you trying to back up the claim that trans people shouldn't transition? Are you trying to keep trans people safe? Because it sounds an awful lot like the former.
I backup the idea that kids (perhaps before they're, let's say, 16 or so, since there's less limitations on what you can do when you turn 16) should not transition at such an early age, since they can actually not be transgender and that could worsen their situation
Most of the time people don't transition medically at a younger age than 16, I personally have never heard of a ten year old going on hormones because ten year-olds have not started puberty yet, so....
You can start puberty that young
21
Posts: 55745
Date: 10-07-2020 21:30
BEWAREARTEMIS
National Star



BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
Okay, but let's discuss what you're trying to say by stating these facts. Are you trying to back up the claim that trans people shouldn't transition? Are you trying to keep trans people safe? Because it sounds an awful lot like the former.
I backup the idea that kids (perhaps before they're, let's say, 16 or so, since there's less limitations on what you can do when you turn 16) should not transition at such an early age, since they can actually not be transgender and that could worsen their situation
Most of the time people don't transition medically at a younger age than 16, I personally have never heard of a ten year old going on hormones because ten year-olds have not started puberty yet, so....
I recall reading news of kids that age or a little bit older (like, 11 or 12) that went through hormone treatment. If I find those who I read about, I'll link them
15
Posts: 2206
Date: 10-07-2020 21:31
Private
International Star



uhyre wrote:
Claire wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
I backup the idea that kids (perhaps before they're, let's say, 16 or so, since there's less limitations on what you can do when you turn 16) should not transition at such an early age, since they can actually not be transgender and that could worsen their situation
Most of the time people don't transition medically at a younger age than 16, I personally have never heard of a ten year old going on hormones because ten year-olds have not started puberty yet, so....
You can start puberty that young
u can yeah but generally its not the common age to do so, so safe assumption really
17
Posts: 28887
Date: 10-07-2020 21:33
Private
International Star



Utdatert wrote:
yes 

In fact I already have earlier in my life
16
Posts: 6863
Date: 10-07-2020 21:33
Alam
World Famous



Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
I backup the idea that kids (perhaps before they're, let's say, 16 or so, since there's less limitations on what you can do when you turn 16) should not transition at such an early age, since they can actually not be transgender and that could worsen their situation
Most of the time people don't transition medically at a younger age than 16, I personally have never heard of a ten year old going on hormones because ten year-olds have not started puberty yet, so....
I recall reading news of kids that age or a little bit older (like, 11 or 12) that went through hormone treatment. If I find those who I read about, I'll link them
Well, I agree that that's not a terrific idea.
20
Posts: 23097
Date: 10-07-2020 21:36
BEWAREARTEMIS
National Star



BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
Most of the time people don't transition medically at a younger age than 16, I personally have never heard of a ten year old going on hormones because ten year-olds have not started puberty yet, so....
I recall reading news of kids that age or a little bit older (like, 11 or 12) that went through hormone treatment. If I find those who I read about, I'll link them
Well, I agree that that's not a terrific idea.
I find it odd at best. Let's remind ourselves that as kids, we may have wanted to be so many things, but when you grow up, you may find out that you don't want to be a certain way anymore (or if you do, go on). That's why I find it wrong 
15
Posts: 2206
Date: 10-07-2020 21:38
Alam
World Famous



Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
I recall reading news of kids that age or a little bit older (like, 11 or 12) that went through hormone treatment. If I find those who I read about, I'll link them
Well, I agree that that's not a terrific idea.
I find it odd at best. Let's remind ourselves that as kids, we may have wanted to be so many things, but when you grow up, you may find out that you don't want to be a certain way anymore (or if you do, go on). That's why I find it wrong 
Again, I agree. Though I find your persistence on this point to be a bit concerning.
20
Posts: 23097
Date: 10-07-2020 21:39
BEWAREARTEMIS
National Star



BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
BEWAREARTEMIS wrote:
Alam wrote:
Well, I agree that that's not a terrific idea.
I find it odd at best. Let's remind ourselves that as kids, we may have wanted to be so many things, but when you grow up, you may find out that you don't want to be a certain way anymore (or if you do, go on). That's why I find it wrong 
Again, I agree. Though I find your persistence on this point to be a bit concerning.
I thought you meant another thing with this, just found out, sorry
15
Posts: 2206
Date: 10-07-2020 21:40
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