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before we start more gender related discussio
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
Basil wrote:
Claire wrote:
Basil wrote:
lol thank god!
too hard to debate her huh?
nope you just both refuse to actually respond to debating points, so it's kinda a pointless endeavor! 

but we've told you this again and again claire, i'm not sure why your memory is so bad. ):
Probably smoked too much pot when I was a kid. : (  you'll have to forgive me. 
21
Posts: 55744
Date: 17-09-2018 18:36
Ad0xa
World Famous



ad0xa wrote:
Snusmumrikken wrote:
ad0xa wrote:
Maybe we should make a new word for biological women. Just to make it easy.
What about......... "consigned egg-bearer by birth" 


totally easier. 
Except that it wouldn't be 100% correct because not all biological women carry eggs, illness and deviations happen. 
Like I said. By birth! Not by that exact time we're talking about them. And they might even be men. They were just assigned to carry eggs by birth. 
21
Posts: 14827
Date: 17-09-2018 18:36
Pavlov
International Star



Pavlov wrote:
Hennastii wrote:
Rosa wrote:
Claire wrote:
If it's different for everyone then how is this word even useful? What is it supposed to tell me? What information is supposed to be conveyed?

I don't want to generalize it. I really don't want to put it in folders.
i agree with you. if someone says that they feel they are a woman, then they just are
and because the concept of "a woman" is not just a thing or two, it's more complicated and that's why it is hard to explain what "a woman" really is
the concept of a woman is nothing, thats why its so hard to define, without the gender roles, the reproductive organ the term has become useless
15
Posts: 29813
Date: 17-09-2018 18:37
Private
World Famous



Rosa wrote:
Hennastii wrote:
Rosa wrote:
Claire wrote:
If it's different for everyone then how is this word even useful? What is it supposed to tell me? What information is supposed to be conveyed?

I don't want to generalize it. I really don't want to put it in folders.
i agree with you. if someone says that they feel they are a woman, then they just are
and because the concept of "a woman" is not just a thing or two, it's more complicated and that's why it is hard to explain what "a woman" really is
Yes, spot on 
17
Posts: 5207
Date: 17-09-2018 18:37
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
ad0xa wrote:
Vortex wrote:
ad0xa wrote:
Maybe we should make a new word for biological women. Just to make it easy.
What about......... "consigned egg-bearer by birth" 


totally easier.
but what about those with ovulatory dysfunction
They were still assigned egg-bearer by birth tho. Even if they can't fullfill that assignment. 
but how can you bear eggs if you are missing ovaries? if you never bear any of the eggs you might carry inside of you?

what distinction do we truly need for women, that doesn't further subjugated them by being so gynocentric and putting the focus on, of all things, the ability to bear children? that's kinda why women have been oppressed throughout history.
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 18:37
Private
World Famous



Yoko wrote:
Basil wrote:
Claire wrote:
Basil wrote:
lol thank god!
too hard to debate her huh?
nope you just both refuse to actually respond to debating points, so it's kinda a pointless endeavor! 

but we've told you this again and again claire, i'm not sure why your memory is so bad. ):
i thought i responded to everything you said, but ok .  also i don't understand why it has to be a debate rather than trying to just understand each others viewpoint . 

being lowkey rude and passive aggressive makes it hard to want to talk to you
21
Posts: 23197
Date: 17-09-2018 18:38
Pavlov
International Star



Pavlov wrote:
Basil wrote:
ad0xa wrote:
Vortex wrote:
but what about those with ovulatory dysfunction
They were still assigned egg-bearer by birth tho. Even if they can't fullfill that assignment. 
but how can you bear eggs if you are missing ovaries? if you never bear any of the eggs you might carry inside of you?

what distinction do we truly need for women, that doesn't further subjugated them by being so gynocentric and putting the focus on, of all things, the ability to bear children? that's kinda why women have been oppressed throughout history.
a vasp without a stinger is still a vasp
15
Posts: 29813
Date: 17-09-2018 18:38
Ad0xa
World Famous



ad0xa wrote:
Basil wrote:
ad0xa wrote:
Vortex wrote:
but what about those with ovulatory dysfunction
They were still assigned egg-bearer by birth tho. Even if they can't fullfill that assignment. 
but how can you bear eggs if you are missing ovaries? if you never bear any of the eggs you might carry inside of you?

what distinction do we truly need for women, that doesn't further subjugated them by being so gynocentric and putting the focus on, of all things, the ability to bear children? that's kinda why women have been oppressed throughout history.
It's not a word to describe women. It's a word to describe egg-bearers. 
21
Posts: 14827
Date: 17-09-2018 18:38
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
Persona wrote:
just leaving a quote here from my queen

“...the end goal of feminist revolution must be...not just the elimination of male privilage but of the sex distinction itself: genital differences between human beings would no longer matter culturally.” 
― Shulamith Firestone, The Dialectic of Sex: The Case for Feminist Revolution
some day! i love this quote though
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 18:39
Ad0xa
World Famous



ad0xa wrote:
Like a fucking flower. It doesn't have a gender. But it can still either be pollinated or release pollen to create fruit/seed.
21
Posts: 14827
Date: 17-09-2018 18:39
Anachronism
National Star



Anachronism wrote:
Snusmumrikken wrote:
Anachronism wrote:
Snusmumrikken wrote:
If you guys are genuinely interested in defining things I'd recommend Meaning by Elbourne, the first chapter if I recall correctly, where he tries to define the word 'chair' and describes the problematic aspects behind it. Our mental lexicons have 'entries' in it, like definitions, so we're able to say a thing is what it is without being able to describe why or even how. A chair might be something with four legs that you can sit on, but everything with four legs that you can sit on are chairs e.g. a cat. There's also things that are chairs without any legs, and chairs that are chairs although you can't sit on them. So when something as simple as a chair is impossible to correctly define - how the hell are we going to describe something that is 1. physical, 2. societal and 3. psychological, probably with more than those three things. I'm sorry if this isn't adequate or even within your question, I'd just like to address the problem with defining things. 
I love you so much.
This is 100% inside my field of study I love languages 
do you study linguistics? 

This is the missing linking. Gender and sex are clearly real things, or else we wouldn't have terms like 'cuck' or 'soyboy' for feminine men and so on. It's just that it's so hard to really define them concretely or measure them, yet it doesn't mean it isn't real. I like how you mention their are too many entries to classify gender into one sole definition.

Gender is nuts. I don't even know what to think anymore.
17
Posts: 24229
Date: 17-09-2018 18:40
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
OK, wait, let me be sure I understand:

A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman?

What exactly are we identifying as though?????? How is this useful? 
21
Posts: 55744
Date: 17-09-2018 18:43
Private
World Famous



Yoko wrote:
Claire wrote:
OK, wait, let me be sure I understand:

A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman?

What exactly are we identifying as though?????? How is this useful? 
nobody is going to give u an actual answer          is there a point to asking this any more
21
Posts: 23197
Date: 17-09-2018 18:44
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
ad0xa wrote:
Basil wrote:
ad0xa wrote:
They were still assigned egg-bearer by birth tho. Even if they can't fullfill that assignment. 
but how can you bear eggs if you are missing ovaries? if you never bear any of the eggs you might carry inside of you?

what distinction do we truly need for women, that doesn't further subjugated them by being so gynocentric and putting the focus on, of all things, the ability to bear children? that's kinda why women have been oppressed throughout history.
It's not a word to describe women. It's a word to describe egg-bearers. 
>we need a better word to describe women
>describe them as egg bearers
>not all women are part of this classification
>'it's not a word to describe women.'

??? i don't think it's a useful classification if it doesn't accomplish what we set out to do in the first place.



also, the distinction between a wasp with a stinger/without is that having a stinger is a part of ALL wasps, whereas what we are attempting to do is clarify between two subsets within the wasp group by a factor that should discriminate the two. i would think a better example would be ants; there is one queen, many queens are born but they are usually killed. what determines a true queen is her size. the queen has wings, the female workers do not. but the males also have wings. what do the queen and the workers share in common, beyond what we've designated as female? female workers never lay eggs. 

defining 'male' vs 'female' is an impossible task, because they are constructs that we have built as a society, and all around us in nature (and society) we bear witness to the vast gradient that people/creatures can fall along.
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 18:45
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
Yoko wrote:
Claire wrote:
OK, wait, let me be sure I understand:

A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman?

What exactly are we identifying as though?????? How is this useful? 
nobody is going to give u an actual answer          is there a point to asking this any more
maybe someday someone will define woman without using circular logic. ;-;
21
Posts: 55744
Date: 17-09-2018 18:46
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