the communism vs capitalism debate is always - Forum

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ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:
I am very pro fend for urself type of deal yeah, if I didn't work for it, its not mine to have, same w others. Eh

Do you believe billionaires 'worked' for the capital they have? Or do you believe that there is an element of exploitation (they amass wealth at the cost of others)

Sure there is exploitation but I don't care rlly, if I could be them I would lol

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Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:When u describe it like this I agree even more w capitalism lol. I have no issue seeing a cashier job as being lesser than a doctor, I don't believe everyone is equal or that they should be treated equal unless they do the same work. I don't care abt everyone having a place to live bla bla bla, the only thing that makes life bearable is the ability to be better than other ppl, hierarchy wise. Even if I never get there, even if im dirt poor, I wouldn't go away from that mindset, cus its something to strive for and to continue living for, and also, receiving stuff for merely living, no I would rather not be alive lol. It is what it is. Also a moneyless society, a nightmare. Consumerism >

if that's what you believe then that's what you believe. i personally disagree but that's fine.
you might be interested in the book called The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. i'ts not about communism but about our behavior in relation to evolution and our behavior in relation to others (in a biological sense)

My entire family is communists n im like bruha but tbh I feel I relate more to their way of thinking rather than the typical internet or vp communist, they r no bullshitty

that's interesting, do they adhere to a specific branch of communism? and in what way would they differ from internet communists? (i kind of get what you mean by that but also not)

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ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Heaven wrote:
oh no

I think social structures like free (ish) healthcare, free school etc is fine but other than that, no

Why would those structures be fine but not more? As you believe everyone should fend for themselves, shouldn't people then also fend for their own healthcare and schooling? Why is the line drawn there?

Cus I look at america n shits gone off the rails, a very bad example of what capitalism could be. State regulation is important but it shouldn't play a big part

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Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:
I think social structures like free (ish) healthcare, free school etc is fine but other than that, no

Why would those structures be fine but not more? As you believe everyone should fend for themselves, shouldn't people then also fend for their own healthcare and schooling? Why is the line drawn there?

Cus I look at america n shits gone off the rails, a very bad example of what capitalism could be. State regulation is important but it shouldn't play a big part

So do you think the nordic model is fine? or is that also too extreme on the other side

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ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
if that's what you believe then that's what you believe. i personally disagree but that's fine.
you might be interested in the book called The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. i'ts not about communism but about our behavior in relation to evolution and our behavior in relation to others (in a biological sense)

My entire family is communists n im like bruha but tbh I feel I relate more to their way of thinking rather than the typical internet or vp communist, they r no bullshitty

that's interesting, do they adhere to a specific branch of communism? and in what way would they differ from internet communists? (i kind of get what you mean by that but also not)

Idk its not rlly explainable, but idk ig they r smarter or sum lol 😭 like they can see when shit won't work, and 99% of internet communists seem to be striving for an impossible future that wouldn't work in any way cus owow everyone is equal, but I don't think humans can act like that, not rlly. A few sure, but I don't think ppl r that selfless in the long run ukno

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ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
Why would those structures be fine but not more? As you believe everyone should fend for themselves, shouldn't people then also fend for their own healthcare and schooling? Why is the line drawn there?

Cus I look at america n shits gone off the rails, a very bad example of what capitalism could be. State regulation is important but it shouldn't play a big part

So do you think the nordic model is fine? or is that also too extreme on the other side

Yes its fine, at least w schooling, healthcare etc, but some stuff, at least in noway, is very heavily regulated, random shit like alcohol, car stuff (what u can do to ur car I guess ?? Lol), and just a lot of stuff like that, I don't find it necessary

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Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:
My entire family is communists n im like bruha but tbh I feel I relate more to their way of thinking rather than the typical internet or vp communist, they r no bullshitty

that's interesting, do they adhere to a specific branch of communism? and in what way would they differ from internet communists? (i kind of get what you mean by that but also not)

Idk its not rlly explainable, but idk ig they r smarter or sum lol 😭 like they can see when shit won't work, and 99% of internet communists seem to be striving for an impossible future that wouldn't work in any way cus owow everyone is equal, but I don't think humans can act like that, not rlly. A few sure, but I don't think ppl r that selfless in the long run ukno

i can understand that yes. humans naturally organize themselves into hierarchies (Understanding Social Hierarchies: The Neural and Psychological Foundations of Status Perception (nih.gov)), while communism, a system that aims to remove all form of hierarchy, directly contradicts that.

"Social hierarchies are extremely prevalent, existing across species and present early in human development. From the extensive literature regarding hierarchies in nonhuman primates and humans, there are several important conclusions that can be drawn: (1) social hierarchies are a natural and necessary part of social groups; (2) status has a profound effect on thought and behavior"

hierarchical thinking is biologically wired into us, and as long as hierarchy exists, the division of social groups exists. and as long as that exists, a true communist society will eventually crumble under that desire. however, i do believe humans are communal to a limit and we can find a more egalitarian balance between communism and capitalism. (thus working toward a more socialist like thinking).

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Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:
Cus I look at america n shits gone off the rails, a very bad example of what capitalism could be. State regulation is important but it shouldn't play a big part

So do you think the nordic model is fine? or is that also too extreme on the other side

Yes its fine, at least w schooling, healthcare etc, but some stuff, at least in noway, is very heavily regulated, random shit like alcohol, car stuff (what u can do to ur car I guess ?? Lol), and just a lot of stuff like that, I don't find it necessary

yes nordic countries tend to be rather strict in that. but in turn they often do have free schooling, which is something i stand behind.

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ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
that's interesting, do they adhere to a specific branch of communism? and in what way would they differ from internet communists? (i kind of get what you mean by that but also not)

Idk its not rlly explainable, but idk ig they r smarter or sum lol 😭 like they can see when shit won't work, and 99% of internet communists seem to be striving for an impossible future that wouldn't work in any way cus owow everyone is equal, but I don't think humans can act like that, not rlly. A few sure, but I don't think ppl r that selfless in the long run ukno

i can understand that yes. humans naturally organize themselves into hierarchies (Understanding Social Hierarchies: The Neural and Psychological Foundations of Status Perception (nih.gov)), while communism, a system that aims to remove all form of hierarchy, directly contradicts that.

"Social hierarchies are extremely prevalent, existing across species and present early in human development. From the extensive literature regarding hierarchies in nonhuman primates and humans, there are several important conclusions that can be drawn: (1) social hierarchies are a natural and necessary part of social groups; (2) status has a profound effect on thought and behavior"

hierarchical thinking is biologically wired into us, and as long as hierarchy exists, the division of social groups exists. and as long as that exists, a true communist society will eventually crumble under that desire. however, i do believe humans are communal to a limit and we can find a more egalitarian balance between communism and capitalism. (thus working toward a more socialist like thinking). @ouch

Yes im for some type of socialist thinking, just, the bottom of it all will always be capitalism for me, but I don't think a full on capitalistic society is what I would consider the best possibility

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Miguel wrote:
i think I've always been open Abt not believing that people are good by nature. i think everyone wants their love ones and themselves to have a good life, n not necessarily care about what others go through. most of the time i do think people will act altruistic just because it makes themselves feel like they're better people for doing sobut yes I'd love to live in a utopia where people actually cared about others but instead we live in a weird place where you either act like an asshole or you act like you're not an asshole

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Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:
Idk its not rlly explainable, but idk ig they r smarter or sum lol 😭 like they can see when shit won't work, and 99% of internet communists seem to be striving for an impossible future that wouldn't work in any way cus owow everyone is equal, but I don't think humans can act like that, not rlly. A few sure, but I don't think ppl r that selfless in the long run ukno

i can understand that yes. humans naturally organize themselves into hierarchies (Understanding Social Hierarchies: The Neural and Psychological Foundations of Status Perception (nih.gov)), while communism, a system that aims to remove all form of hierarchy, directly contradicts that.

"Social hierarchies are extremely prevalent, existing across species and present early in human development. From the extensive literature regarding hierarchies in nonhuman primates and humans, there are several important conclusions that can be drawn: (1) social hierarchies are a natural and necessary part of social groups; (2) status has a profound effect on thought and behavior"

hierarchical thinking is biologically wired into us, and as long as hierarchy exists, the division of social groups exists. and as long as that exists, a true communist society will eventually crumble under that desire. however, i do believe humans are communal to a limit and we can find a more egalitarian balance between communism and capitalism. (thus working toward a more socialist like thinking). @ouch

Yes im for some type of socialist thinking, just, the bottom of it all will always be capitalism for me, but I don't think a full on capitalistic society is what I would consider the best possibility

no pure capitalism (if that even exists) is definitely bad, i don't think people at their hearts genuinely wish for that type of system. but i also believe that monetary systems have developed through different cultures individually for a reason, and that the existence of money, and thus the enjoyment of luxury goods is not strictly bad. it's always overconsumption and hypercapitalism that ruins things

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wrote:

DUCKBOY wrote:
i think I've always been open Abt not believing that people are good by nature. i think everyone wants their love ones and themselves to have a good life, n not necessarily care about what others go through. most of the time i do think people will act altruistic just because it makes themselves feel like they're better people for doing sobut yes I'd love to live in a utopia where people actually cared about others but instead we live in a weird place where you either act like an asshole or you act like you're not an asshole

i feel like there are indeed people who are altruistic tbh.... maybe not a lot of them, but they still exist, not everyone is an egoist fundamentally (not me, am an egoist lmao oouf)

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ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

ouch wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
i can understand that yes. humans naturally organize themselves into hierarchies (Understanding Social Hierarchies: The Neural and Psychological Foundations of Status Perception (nih.gov)), while communism, a system that aims to remove all form of hierarchy, directly contradicts that.

"Social hierarchies are extremely prevalent, existing across species and present early in human development. From the extensive literature regarding hierarchies in nonhuman primates and humans, there are several important conclusions that can be drawn: (1) social hierarchies are a natural and necessary part of social groups; (2) status has a profound effect on thought and behavior"

hierarchical thinking is biologically wired into us, and as long as hierarchy exists, the division of social groups exists. and as long as that exists, a true communist society will eventually crumble under that desire. however, i do believe humans are communal to a limit and we can find a more egalitarian balance between communism and capitalism. (thus working toward a more socialist like thinking). @ouch

Yes im for some type of socialist thinking, just, the bottom of it all will always be capitalism for me, but I don't think a full on capitalistic society is what I would consider the best possibility

no pure capitalism (if that even exists) is definitely bad, i don't think people at their hearts genuinely wish for that type of system. but i also believe that monetary systems have developed through different cultures individually for a reason, and that the existence of money, and thus the enjoyment of luxury goods is not strictly bad. it's always overconsumption and hypercapitalism that ruins things

Im fine the overconsumption I guess but yeah idk, I think ppl get good feelings from feeling likethey are actually accomplishing something, buying their own things with money they earned themselves, all that. I could go on the extreme n say I don't rlly want like social money to the ppl who can't work etc but I appreciate that is a way too messed up way to b thinking lol so I choose to ignore. Best is just capitalism but some stuff state regulated etc

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Koolaid wrote:

DUCKBOY wrote:
i think I've always been open Abt not believing that people are good by nature. i think everyone wants their love ones and themselves to have a good life, n not necessarily care about what others go through. most of the time i do think people will act altruistic just because it makes themselves feel like they're better people for doing sobut yes I'd love to live in a utopia where people actually cared about others but instead we live in a weird place where you either act like an asshole or you act like you're not an asshole

you are right. i am reading this book east of eden by john steinbeck, which deals with the nature of evil, and goodness. and whether one will prevail over other. and his end point is that humans choose to be good or evil, that there is no intrinsic force that stirs us toward either.

this all depends on how you look at it, but people might argue that our capacity for empathy means we must be good. because lack of empathy is seen as a mental illness (categorized as antisocial personality disorder). however, empathy is just a biological evolutionary tool that has helped us survive. empathy allows us to understand the other and therefore helps us create social connections. having a social group makes survival easier.

but then again, i just googled it and it does seem after all that humans have a natural tendency toward goodness: Scientists Probe Human Nature--and Discover We Are Good, After All - Scientific American @DUCKBOY

how motivating!

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Koolaid wrote:
" If human nature is something we must be born with, then we may be neither good nor bad, cooperative nor selfish. But if human nature is simply the way we tend to act based on our intuitive and automatic impulses, then it seems that we are an overwhelmingly cooperative species, willing to give for the good of the group even when it comes at our own personal expense."