he/him lesbians - Forum - Virtual Popstar

Private
Minister of Pop

Azriel wrote:

ouch wrote:

Azriel wrote:

ouch wrote:
Cus u can choose I guess , but its kind of confusing cus usually it goes hand in hand with gender identity

But u can choose both

idk I googled it and it was like bc pronouns are a social construct but so is gender right

Meh I don't think gender is only a social construct imo, I don't see how trans people would exist then. Like woman who presents super masculine like technically looking like a man, so they follow the man stereotypes, but they still identify as women yeah. But some go from women to men, and if gender only was a social construct I would think they were ok with just presenting like a man but no dysphoria if they presented like a man (without medical intervention), and vice versa for men to women and feminine men

like I figure theres gotta be some brain thing going on that differs men from women but I don't know

idk if this made any sense even

I mean sure but then how is misgendering through pronouns a thing 😩

Private
Popstar

ouch wrote:

Azriel wrote:

ouch wrote:

Azriel wrote:
But u can choose both

idk I googled it and it was like bc pronouns are a social construct but so is gender right

Meh I don't think gender is only a social construct imo, I don't see how trans people would exist then. Like woman who presents super masculine like technically looking like a man, so they follow the man stereotypes, but they still identify as women yeah. But some go from women to men, and if gender only was a social construct I would think they were ok with just presenting like a man but no dysphoria if they presented like a man (without medical intervention), and vice versa for men to women and feminine men

like I figure theres gotta be some brain thing going on that differs men from women but I don't know

idk if this made any sense even

I mean sure but then how is misgendering through pronouns a thing 😩

I guess if u identify as a man for example, but were born a woman, and still look 100% like a typical woman, but u have he/him pronouns. And then ppl who don't know u call u she/her cus they don't know obviously if they don't know you

Private
Living legend

Maxwell wrote:

ouch wrote:

Azriel wrote:

ouch wrote:
Meh I don't think gender is only a social construct imo, I don't see how trans people would exist then. Like woman who presents super masculine like technically looking like a man, so they follow the man stereotypes, but they still identify as women yeah. But some go from women to men, and if gender only was a social construct I would think they were ok with just presenting like a man but no dysphoria if they presented like a man (without medical intervention), and vice versa for men to women and feminine men

like I figure theres gotta be some brain thing going on that differs men from women but I don't know

idk if this made any sense even

I mean sure but then how is misgendering through pronouns a thing 😩

I guess if u identify as a man for example, but were born a woman, and still look 100% like a typical woman, but u have he/him pronouns. And then ppl who don't know u call u she/her cus they don't know obviously if they don't know you

what if u were afab, u identify as a woman, but go by he/him
then she/her wud b misgenderin but also, not, bcus pronouns is not gender

In other words sayin wrong pronouns wud in NO case, b misgenderin? bcus pronouns is not gender

or mby it depends from person to person.. if u say he to one it cud just b wrong pronouns while sayin he to another is misgenderin.. Does it depend if they feel like their pronouns is linked to their gender

I feel like Im makin myself difficult but google had such poor answers nd Im stupid I need easy easy explenations

Private
Popstar

ouch wrote:

Maxwell wrote:

ouch wrote:

Azriel wrote:
I mean sure but then how is misgendering through pronouns a thing 😩

I guess if u identify as a man for example, but were born a woman, and still look 100% like a typical woman, but u have he/him pronouns. And then ppl who don't know u call u she/her cus they don't know obviously if they don't know you

what if u were afab, u identify as a woman, but go by he/him
then she/her wud b misgenderin but also, not, bcus pronouns is not gender

In other words sayin wrong pronouns wud in NO case, b misgenderin? bcus pronouns is not gender

or mby it depends from person to person.. if u say he to one it cud just b wrong pronouns while sayin he to another is misgenderin.. Does it depend if they feel like their pronouns is linked to their gender

I feel like Im makin myself difficult but google had such poor answers nd Im stupid I need easy easy explenations

Hm idk, depends on the person I guess. I would think its misgendering if their gender identity and pronouns match up (so man= he/him, nb= they/them, woman= she/her, then u got all the other genders but im not gonna ....) but mby doesn't matter AS much if your pronouns don't match yout gender identity, so for example woman going by he/him. But tbh I think women going ONLY by he/him is a severeley rare occurence, women who have all 3 pronouns or they just don't care what pronouns ppl use are more common I think, but still rare, but I don't think they would care as much either because their pronouns aren't linked to their gender identity

me explaining trans stuff is like a man mansplaining menstruation, sorry lol

Private
Living legend

Maxwell wrote:

ouch wrote:

Maxwell wrote:

ouch wrote:
I guess if u identify as a man for example, but were born a woman, and still look 100% like a typical woman, but u have he/him pronouns. And then ppl who don't know u call u she/her cus they don't know obviously if they don't know you

what if u were afab, u identify as a woman, but go by he/him
then she/her wud b misgenderin but also, not, bcus pronouns is not gender

In other words sayin wrong pronouns wud in NO case, b misgenderin? bcus pronouns is not gender

or mby it depends from person to person.. if u say he to one it cud just b wrong pronouns while sayin he to another is misgenderin.. Does it depend if they feel like their pronouns is linked to their gender

I feel like Im makin myself difficult but google had such poor answers nd Im stupid I need easy easy explenations

Hm idk, depends on the person I guess. I would think its misgendering if their gender identity and pronouns match up (so man= he/him, nb= they/them, woman= she/her, then u got all the other genders but im not gonna ....) but mby doesn't matter AS much if your pronouns don't match yout gender identity, so for example woman going by he/him. But tbh I think women going ONLY by he/him is a severeley rare occurence, women who have all 3 pronouns or they just don't care what pronouns ppl use are more common I think, but still rare, but I don't think they would care as much either because their pronouns aren't linked to their gender identity

me explaining trans stuff is like a man mansplaining menstruation, sorry

u r so smart

Anachronism
National star

Anachronism wrote:

ouch wrote:

Azriel wrote:

ouch wrote:
Cus u can choose I guess , but its kind of confusing cus usually it goes hand in hand with gender identity

But u can choose both

idk I googled it and it was like bc pronouns are a social construct but so is gender right

Meh I don't think gender is only a social construct imo, I don't see how trans people would exist then. Like woman who presents super masculine like technically looking like a man, so they follow the man stereotypes, but they still identify as women yeah. But some go from women to men, and if gender only was a social construct I would think they were ok with just presenting like a man but no dysphoria if they presented like a man (without medical intervention), and vice versa for men to women and feminine men

like I figure theres gotta be some brain thing going on that differs men from women but I don't know

idk if this made any sense even

I think gender is a social construct in that what we perceive as men and women is societal based and changes over time and across culture. If gender wasn’t constructed, it’d be consistent rather than an evolving thing.

Tho there is a biological basis for being trans yeah. And trans people have been around for centuries. But how we perceive a masculine or feminine identity is based on culture, if you know what I mean.

Private
Popstar

ouch wrote:

Anachronism wrote:

ouch wrote:

Azriel wrote:
But u can choose both

idk I googled it and it was like bc pronouns are a social construct but so is gender right

Meh I don't think gender is only a social construct imo, I don't see how trans people would exist then. Like woman who presents super masculine like technically looking like a man, so they follow the man stereotypes, but they still identify as women yeah. But some go from women to men, and if gender only was a social construct I would think they were ok with just presenting like a man but no dysphoria if they presented like a man (without medical intervention), and vice versa for men to women and feminine men

like I figure theres gotta be some brain thing going on that differs men from women but I don't know

idk if this made any sense even

I think gender is a social construct in that what we perceive as men and women is societal based and changes over time and across culture. If gender wasn’t constructed, it’d be consistent rather than an evolving thing.

Tho there is a biological basis for being trans yeah. And trans people have been around for centuries. But how we perceive a masculine or feminine identity is based on culture, if you know what I mean.

Yep yep, I think I meant that gender does exist in terms of feeling ok or feeling dysphoric in your own body (so ur sex traits). Thats what differs from a masculine cis woman and a ftm man, even if they present the same in terms of clothing, hair etc, how they feel about their bodies is what differs them. Gender expression (?) or stereotypes are a social construct tho yeah, and doesn't have to be linked to what gender u are

Anachronism
National star

Anachronism wrote:

gender expression /=/ gender identity

so like you can be a woman who isn’t particular feminine, is comfortable in male spaces/roles and is fine with people assigning you a male role or even using male pronouns. It doesn’t undermine your womanhood whatsoever.

same with flamboyant cis gay men who are cool with people referring them to girls or sisters, they’re comfortable being dudes but also ok being viewed in a feminine way, doesn’t make them not men

Private
Popstar

ouch wrote:
Lol that was a better explanation for it, I have major word salad brain lately

Anachronism
National star

Anachronism wrote:
This entire thread takes me back to that Arielle scarcella video where she whines about how if you’re a lesbian you’re a girl so he/him pronouns don’t make sense

what I thought it was the social liberals and progressives who were the sexists and gender stereotypers here how is it not gender stereotyping to assume all woman like the same pronouns looool

Anachronism
National star

Anachronism wrote:

ouch wrote:

Anachronism wrote:

ouch wrote:
Meh I don't think gender is only a social construct imo, I don't see how trans people would exist then. Like woman who presents super masculine like technically looking like a man, so they follow the man stereotypes, but they still identify as women yeah. But some go from women to men, and if gender only was a social construct I would think they were ok with just presenting like a man but no dysphoria if they presented like a man (without medical intervention), and vice versa for men to women and feminine men

like I figure theres gotta be some brain thing going on that differs men from women but I don't know

idk if this made any sense even

I think gender is a social construct in that what we perceive as men and women is societal based and changes over time and across culture. If gender wasn’t constructed, it’d be consistent rather than an evolving thing.

Tho there is a biological basis for being trans yeah. And trans people have been around for centuries. But how we perceive a masculine or feminine identity is based on culture, if you know what I mean.

Yep yep, I think I meant that gender does exist in terms of feeling ok or feeling dysphoric in your own body (so ur sex traits). Thats what differs from a masculine cis woman and a ftm man, even if they present the same in terms of clothing, hair etc, how they feel about their bodies is what differs them. Gender expression (?) or stereotypes are a social construct tho yeah, and doesn't have to be linked to what gender u are

Yeah ok so we both agree gender and sex are separate and gender roles at the very least are a construct

trans people pass by following gender roles to be read as the gender they belong to. I find that interesting. So yeah it’s definitely constructed to a degree

some people argue that if we lived in a gender less society transition wouldn’t be needed. Idk if that’s true. Tbh I don’t think gender is the problem. It’s enforcing it on everyone since birth based on their genitals that is the problem. I think self identification would solve much of that issue (and I used to disagree I used to be trans med lmfao)

Anachronism
National star

Anachronism wrote:
For anyone who is really confused about gender identities that don’t fit into a neat binary i recommend the works of Leslie Feinberg. I found their work helpful

Anachronism
National star

Anachronism wrote:
“For me, pronouns are always placed within context. I am female-bodied, I am a butch lesbian, a transgender lesbian—referring to me as "she/her" is appropriate, particularly in a non-trans setting in which referring to me as "he" would appear to resolve the social contradiction between my birth sex and gender expression and render my transgender expression invisible. I like the gender neutral pronoun "ze/hir" because it makes it impossible to hold on to gender/sex/sexuality assumptions about a person you're about to meet or you've just met. And in an all trans setting, referring to me as "he/him" honors my gender expression in the same way that referring to my sister drag queens as "she/her" does.“

when I read that Leslie quote it made perfect sense. Gender is more straight forward for some than others

Klavier
Minister of Pop

Klavier wrote:
dont care good for them

Private
National star

Sylvan wrote:

Anachronism wrote:
This entire thread takes me back to that Arielle scarcella video where she whines about how if you’re a lesbian you’re a girl so he/him pronouns don’t make sense

what I thought it was the social liberals and progressives who were the sexists and gender stereotypers here how is it not gender stereotyping to assume all woman like the same pronouns looool

She's been on a terfy trip for quite a while now unfortunately.
I used to watch her videos for a very brief time in like 2013 when I thought I was a lesbian lol