someone shot n killed ppl outside one of oslo - Forum

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wug wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

wuwu wrote:
no one is saying that no muslims are anti lgbt. that is an obviously false statement. this is about muslims as a group always being blamed when one radical extremist person commits an act of terror. do people blame every right wing person when a white supremacist commits terror? no, i have never seen that.
people always use terrible events to excuse their racism and hatred and it is sick.

it is common for muslims because they believe in islam to be against lbqt
it is not common to be right wing for every white person

that is the difference
muslim people as a whole are not to be blamed for terrorist attacks, that is wrong
what is looked down on are their values or beliefs which are the reasons for SOME of the committed terrorist attacks

if 99% of all whites were right wing it would make theoretically make sense to place the blame on whites if a white supremacist committed an act of terror but that is not the case

does that make sense

So 99% of all Muslims are anti-lgbt?

Account deleted

wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

wuwu wrote:
no one is saying that no muslims are anti lgbt. that is an obviously false statement. this is about muslims as a group always being blamed when one radical extremist person commits an act of terror. do people blame every right wing person when a white supremacist commits terror? no, i have never seen that.
people always use terrible events to excuse their racism and hatred and it is sick.

it is common for muslims because they believe in islam to be against lbqt
it is not common to be right wing for every white person

that is the difference
muslim people as a whole are not to be blamed for terrorist attacks, that is wrong
what is looked down on are their values or beliefs which are the reasons for SOME of the committed terrorist attacks

Radicalisation occurs in all groups regardless of the intention behind the "source material" that they use to justify their actions. It is fundamentally unfair to blame the religion for the action of radicalised members, we don't do it for any other religion and should therefore refrain from doing it with Islam. No religion would support murder of people regardless of whether they lead their life in "sin" (which is a Christian concept anyway), because other points should always cancel out that. Ultimately, in religion, god or the divinity of the religion or some other related concept is the final judge; the followers of the religion are never supposed to take this role.

wrong, islam itself doesnt accept gay people. so you can basically blame the religion. its their believes.

Account deleted

wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

Sobbing wrote:
it is common for muslims because they believe in islam to be against lbqt
it is not common to be right wing for every white person

that is the difference
muslim people as a whole are not to be blamed for terrorist attacks, that is wrong
what is looked down on are their values or beliefs which are the reasons for SOME of the committed terrorist attacks

if 99% of all whites were right wing it would make theoretically make sense to place the blame on whites if a white supremacist committed an act of terror but that is not the case

does that make sense

So 99% of all Muslims are anti-lgbt?

most of them.

Private
International Star

wug wrote:

slave wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:

Sobbing wrote:
it is common for muslims because they believe in islam to be against lbqt
it is not common to be right wing for every white person

that is the difference
muslim people as a whole are not to be blamed for terrorist attacks, that is wrong
what is looked down on are their values or beliefs which are the reasons for SOME of the committed terrorist attacks

Radicalisation occurs in all groups regardless of the intention behind the "source material" that they use to justify their actions. It is fundamentally unfair to blame the religion for the action of radicalised members, we don't do it for any other religion and should therefore refrain from doing it with Islam. No religion would support murder of people regardless of whether they lead their life in "sin" (which is a Christian concept anyway), because other points should always cancel out that. Ultimately, in religion, god or the divinity of the religion or some other related concept is the final judge; the followers of the religion are never supposed to take this role.

wrong, islam itself doesnt accept gay people. so you can basically blame the religion. its their believes.

I'm not going to engage in this discussion any further, have a nice evening/night.

Account deleted

wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:

slave wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:
Radicalisation occurs in all groups regardless of the intention behind the "source material" that they use to justify their actions. It is fundamentally unfair to blame the religion for the action of radicalised members, we don't do it for any other religion and should therefore refrain from doing it with Islam. No religion would support murder of people regardless of whether they lead their life in "sin" (which is a Christian concept anyway), because other points should always cancel out that. Ultimately, in religion, god or the divinity of the religion or some other related concept is the final judge; the followers of the religion are never supposed to take this role.

wrong, islam itself doesnt accept gay people. so you can basically blame the religion. its their believes.

I'm not going to engage in this discussion any further, have a nice evening/night.

sad, i think its an important discussion

Private
National Star

Sobbing wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

wuwu wrote:
no one is saying that no muslims are anti lgbt. that is an obviously false statement. this is about muslims as a group always being blamed when one radical extremist person commits an act of terror. do people blame every right wing person when a white supremacist commits terror? no, i have never seen that.
people always use terrible events to excuse their racism and hatred and it is sick.

it is common for muslims because they believe in islam to be against lbqt
it is not common to be right wing for every white person

that is the difference
muslim people as a whole are not to be blamed for terrorist attacks, that is wrong
what is looked down on are their values or beliefs which are the reasons for SOME of the committed terrorist attacks

Radicalisation occurs in all groups regardless of the intention behind the "source material" that they use to justify their actions. It is fundamentally unfair to blame the religion for the action of radicalised members, we don't do it for any other religion and should therefore refrain from doing it with Islam. No religion would support murder of people regardless of whether they lead their life in "sin" (which is a Christian concept anyway), because other points should always cancel out that. Ultimately, in religion, god or the divinity of the religion or some other related concept is the final judge; the followers of the religion are never supposed to take this role.

radicalisation occurs in all groups, correct, i have never stated otherwise
u literally prove my point in the same sentence u try to prove me wrong, we dont do it with other religions, but do it with islam, why? what could be the common denominator? islam and christianity, both, support murder and punishment of homosexuality, in this case we are discussing islam but your argument always leans to the argument of ''they're not the only ones''
no they're not, no one said they are

christianity shares the same beliefs as islam, the difference is that christianity is prominent in parts of the world with the western culture, which means it is westernized and follows the western cultures, so muslims who live in western countries usually do not share the same beliefs as muslims in the eastern parts of the world

Private
National Star

Sobbing wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

Sobbing wrote:
it is common for muslims because they believe in islam to be against lbqt
it is not common to be right wing for every white person

that is the difference
muslim people as a whole are not to be blamed for terrorist attacks, that is wrong
what is looked down on are their values or beliefs which are the reasons for SOME of the committed terrorist attacks

if 99% of all whites were right wing it would make theoretically make sense to place the blame on whites if a white supremacist committed an act of terror but that is not the case

does that make sense

So 99% of all Muslims are anti-lgbt?

the ones living in the eastern countries, yes
the ones living in the western, no

Account deleted

wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:

Sobbing wrote:
it is common for muslims because they believe in islam to be against lbqt
it is not common to be right wing for every white person

that is the difference
muslim people as a whole are not to be blamed for terrorist attacks, that is wrong
what is looked down on are their values or beliefs which are the reasons for SOME of the committed terrorist attacks

Radicalisation occurs in all groups regardless of the intention behind the "source material" that they use to justify their actions. It is fundamentally unfair to blame the religion for the action of radicalised members, we don't do it for any other religion and should therefore refrain from doing it with Islam. No religion would support murder of people regardless of whether they lead their life in "sin" (which is a Christian concept anyway), because other points should always cancel out that. Ultimately, in religion, god or the divinity of the religion or some other related concept is the final judge; the followers of the religion are never supposed to take this role.

radicalisation occurs in all groups, correct, i have never stated otherwise
u literally prove my point in the same sentence u try to prove me wrong, we dont do it with other religions, but do it with islam, why? what could be the common denominator? islam and christianity, both, support murder and punishment of homosexuality, in this case we are discussing islam but your argument always leans to the argument of ''they're not the only ones''
no they're not, no one said they are

christianity shares the same beliefs as islam, the difference is that christianity is prominent in parts of the world with the western culture, which means it is westernized and follows the western cultures, so muslims who live in western countries usually do not share the same beliefs as muslims in the eastern parts of the world

ahh ilu, youre good at argumenting for this.

Account deleted

wrote:
i also wonder why people are getting so defensive when someone talks down on islam, i dont see the same when people talk down about christianity or other believes. people are so overprotective and i just dont know why

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Sobbing wrote:
it was the same thing with christianity in the past, homosexuality was as grave in christian countries as it is TODAY in the eastern countries, thats why they're third world countries

i dislike all religion regardless of its values and i detest people trying to defend the grave and dangerous guidelines that people refer to for guidance in life

Private
National Star

Sobbing wrote:

slave wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:
Radicalisation occurs in all groups regardless of the intention behind the "source material" that they use to justify their actions. It is fundamentally unfair to blame the religion for the action of radicalised members, we don't do it for any other religion and should therefore refrain from doing it with Islam. No religion would support murder of people regardless of whether they lead their life in "sin" (which is a Christian concept anyway), because other points should always cancel out that. Ultimately, in religion, god or the divinity of the religion or some other related concept is the final judge; the followers of the religion are never supposed to take this role.

radicalisation occurs in all groups, correct, i have never stated otherwise
u literally prove my point in the same sentence u try to prove me wrong, we dont do it with other religions, but do it with islam, why? what could be the common denominator? islam and christianity, both, support murder and punishment of homosexuality, in this case we are discussing islam but your argument always leans to the argument of ''they're not the only ones''
no they're not, no one said they are

christianity shares the same beliefs as islam, the difference is that christianity is prominent in parts of the world with the western culture, which means it is westernized and follows the western cultures, so muslims who live in western countries usually do not share the same beliefs as muslims in the eastern parts of the world

ahh ilu, youre good at argumenting for this.

u dont have to love me nor thank me i am not defending you nor speaking for you

i just dislike people shitting out of their mouths

Account deleted

wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

slave wrote:

Sobbing wrote:
radicalisation occurs in all groups, correct, i have never stated otherwise
u literally prove my point in the same sentence u try to prove me wrong, we dont do it with other religions, but do it with islam, why? what could be the common denominator? islam and christianity, both, support murder and punishment of homosexuality, in this case we are discussing islam but your argument always leans to the argument of ''they're not the only ones''
no they're not, no one said they are

christianity shares the same beliefs as islam, the difference is that christianity is prominent in parts of the world with the western culture, which means it is westernized and follows the western cultures, so muslims who live in western countries usually do not share the same beliefs as muslims in the eastern parts of the world

ahh ilu, youre good at argumenting for this.

u dont have to love me nor thank me i am not defending you or speaking for you

i just dislike people shitting out of their mouths

i know that you arent but take it as a compliment, youre good at proving a point that i see people often ignore or dont want to believe is reality

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National Star

Sobbing wrote:
anyway my point stands
religion bad
killing bad

gives me all the reasons to hole up in my room without a guilty conscience

Alam
World Famous

Alam wrote:

Klasifikovany wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

wuwu wrote:
no one is saying that no muslims are anti lgbt. that is an obviously false statement. this is about muslims as a group always being blamed when one radical extremist person commits an act of terror. do people blame every right wing person when a white supremacist commits terror? no, i have never seen that.
people always use terrible events to excuse their racism and hatred and it is sick.

it is common for muslims because they believe in islam to be against lbqt
it is not common to be right wing for every white person

that is the difference
muslim people as a whole are not to be blamed for terrorist attacks, that is wrong
what is looked down on are their values or beliefs which are the reasons for SOME of the committed terrorist attacks

Radicalisation occurs in all groups regardless of the intention behind the "source material" that they use to justify their actions. It is fundamentally unfair to blame the religion for the action of radicalised members, we don't do it for any other religion and should therefore refrain from doing it with Islam. No religion would support murder of people regardless of whether they lead their life in "sin" (which is a Christian concept anyway), because other points should always cancel out that. Ultimately, in religion, god or the divinity of the religion or some other related concept is the final judge; the followers of the religion are never supposed to take this role.

Okay so Sobbing is incredibly inarticulate, no offence, and their point is uhhh misguided to say the least. But to equate modern Islam to modern Christianity is inaccurate and unfair. Modern Christianity, or at least most popular denominations of it, have evolved differently to Islam and to assume that they are equally incompatible with progressive/"western" ideals is just not true, they aren't.
Radicalisation is relative, yeh? Say, in some orthodox/ultra orthodox Jewish communities, the idea of conversion therapy is completely sensical, while in any reform, conservative or secular Jewish communities the concept is absolutely radical. So when the starting point for Muslim people from Islamic countries is already radical from a progressive/"western" perspective, we have a problem. It's not a coincidence that many Islamic countries are going through war, civil strife and mass migration, because the ideals of Islam as they are at the moment are socially unsustainable, especially when faced with other parts of the world.
As to your point that sin is a Christian concept, that's just not true. Original sin is, yes, but sin as in "you did something God doesn't like, you shall be punished for it" is present in the main three Abrahamic religions at least (I honestly don't know much about other Abrahamic religions or otherwise so yeah), and it is a big part of Islam specifically. Regardless, I don't know why you brought up the religious aspect of it all, as in, what "the faith" (Islam is far from a monolith) encourages, because the bottom line is that many Islamic cultures encourage beliefs and actions that are harmful to people inside and outside of the religion, with what happened yesterday as an extreme result of that, so it doesn't really matter what scripture or religious scholars have to say.
Regardless of all that, I think I understand what your point is, which is that stating all of this (read: the obvious) is useless, or in fact, harmful to the vast majority of Muslims just living their lives and believing what they believe in the comfort of their own homes. I agree, I don't think there's really a point to saying "hey uh Islam is kinda problematic" without pointing to a solution, it's just a further dividing conversation, there's no point to it. Yeh.

Alam
World Famous

Alam wrote:

slave wrote:
i also wonder why people are getting so defensive when someone talks down on islam, i dont see the same when people talk down about christianity or other believes. people are so overprotective and i just dont know why

Because no one in your part of the world has been killed for being Christian in the past like one and a half thousand years, my God.