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before we start more gender related discussio
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
Yoko wrote:
Basil wrote:
Claire wrote:
too hard to debate her huh?
nope you just both refuse to actually respond to debating points, so it's kinda a pointless endeavor! 

but we've told you this again and again claire, i'm not sure why your memory is so bad. ):
i thought i responded to everything you said, but ok .  also i don't understand why it has to be a debate rather than trying to just understand each others viewpoint . 

being lowkey rude and passive aggressive makes it hard to want to talk to you
me: posts hundreds of words about this topic
you: i don't know why i'm even posting here again when its clear that the genderist side and the radical side just arent compatible, i guess as im passionate about the subject i just feel a need to 

you literally. never responded to anything i said. but came back in to the thread to fan the flames. in all of my responses here (and in the previous thread) i have been very succinct. there is plenty for you to debate with if you would like.

but so far your intention has not been to debate. you have no attempted to refute any of my points, except to comment on my snarkiness. which, i will admit, i have been dismissive of you and claire. because you refuse to discuss anything.
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 18:53
Private
World Famous



Rosa wrote:
Annihilation wrote:
alright, reading through this thread, hennastii and rosa makes some good points that i find myself agreeing w. 
Ah cool! 
17
Posts: 5207
Date: 17-09-2018 18:53
Ad0xa
World Famous



ad0xa wrote:
Claire wrote:
Basil wrote:
also if you read my post, i did define what a woman is. 

she is defined by herself, defined (against her will) by society, and she is also subject to the pain that all women face at the hands of the patriarchy. 
So a woman is a person who is subjected to pain under patriarchy? 

Don't men also suffer from bad parts of patriarchy? Like toxic masculinity hurts men too, right? Are men women then?
I think everyone is woman? 
21
Posts: 14827
Date: 17-09-2018 18:54
Private
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Claire wrote:
Rosa wrote:
Claire wrote:
OK, wait, let me be sure I understand:

A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman?

What exactly are we identifying as though?????? How is this useful? 
I don't know. Are you a woman, and if so, can you tell me specifically why? I'm sure some people who reflected on this a lot can. I don't know what the answer is, though. I'm not specifically asking you, but more in general. 
I am a woman because I am an adult human female. It's not like an identity to me? Like, I have blue eyes, blue eyes aren't my identity. Woman is just what I am. Adult human female. 

But this definition isn't correct then is it? Since it makes so so many people angry if I say this? I don't know how else woman should be defined though besides 'adult human female'.
21
Posts: 55745
Date: 17-09-2018 18:54
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
i understand radical feminism already. as i said last night, i was (and still am) a big proponent of it until radical feminism was co-opted by terfs. 

which is such a shame. because i think we need to be liberated of the concepts of gender and sex, and oppression based on these. but in the meantime, trans women should still be allowed to live their lives without facing ridicule and isolation. 
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 18:54
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
Claire wrote:
Rosa wrote:
Claire wrote:
OK, wait, let me be sure I understand:

A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman, which is anyone who identifies as a woman?

What exactly are we identifying as though?????? How is this useful? 
I don't know. Are you a woman, and if so, can you tell me specifically why? I'm sure some people who reflected on this a lot can. I don't know what the answer is, though. I'm not specifically asking you, but more in general. 
I am a woman because I am an adult human female. It's not like an identity to me? Like, I have blue eyes, blue eyes aren't my identity. Woman is just what I am. Adult human female. 

But this definition isn't correct then is it? Since it makes so so many people angry if I say this? I don't know how else woman should be defined though besides 'adult human female'.
nobody is mad at you for saying you identify as a woman. you are a cis woman, that is how you feel.

what we are frustrated with is the fact that there are women around the world who feel the same way. when i wake up, i am a woman. am i a cis woman? no. but how i see myself is as a woman.

you are free to identify how you please. let other women identify themselves how they please.
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 18:56
Account deleted




wrote:
Claire wrote:
Annihilation wrote:
alright, reading through this thread, hennastii and rosa makes some good points that i find myself agreeing w. 
What they said is nice and good and not wrong, but they never actually defined the word woman so I don't fully understand them.
to me they make more sense than anyone else in this thread. sure, others have defined the word based on their own experiences, opinions and beliefs in regards of the matter at hand, but it really feels like it’s getting lost due to group polarization. i mean i can definitely see it when reading the comments 
Date: 17-09-2018 18:56
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
Basil wrote:
Claire wrote:
Rosa wrote:
I don't know. Are you a woman, and if so, can you tell me specifically why? I'm sure some people who reflected on this a lot can. I don't know what the answer is, though. I'm not specifically asking you, but more in general. 
I am a woman because I am an adult human female. It's not like an identity to me? Like, I have blue eyes, blue eyes aren't my identity. Woman is just what I am. Adult human female. 

But this definition isn't correct then is it? Since it makes so so many people angry if I say this? I don't know how else woman should be defined though besides 'adult human female'.
nobody is mad at you for saying you identify as a woman. you are a cis woman, that is how you feel.

what we are frustrated with is the fact that there are women around the world who feel the same way. when i wake up, i am a woman. am i a cis woman? no. but how i see myself is as a woman.

you are free to identify how you please. let other women identify themselves how they please.
I don't SEE myself as a woman I simply AM an adult human female. It's not my identity. Don't force an identity on me! I do not identify as a blue eyed person, I just am one. It's not my identity it just IS.
21
Posts: 55745
Date: 17-09-2018 18:58
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
Gunshot wrote:
I can't get over the fact that someone logs into here just to discuss this subject matter, it's kind of creepy
except i log on...do my dailies...dress up...and enjoy the site just like anybody else. sorry for being passionate about a topic that has tangible relevance to my day to day life? lol?
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 18:58
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
Annihilation wrote:
Claire wrote:
Annihilation wrote:
alright, reading through this thread, hennastii and rosa makes some good points that i find myself agreeing w. 
What they said is nice and good and not wrong, but they never actually defined the word woman so I don't fully understand them.
to me they make more sense than anyone else in this thread. sure, others have defined the word based on their own experiences, opinions and beliefs in regards of the matter at hand, but it really feels like it’s getting lost due to group polarization. i mean i can definitely see it when reading the comments 
Can you define the word woman?
21
Posts: 55745
Date: 17-09-2018 18:58
Ad0xa
World Famous



ad0xa wrote:
Basil wrote:
i understand radical feminism already. as i said last night, i was (and still am) a big proponent of it until radical feminism was co-opted by terfs. 

which is such a shame. because i think we need to be liberated of the concepts of gender and sex, and oppression based on these. but in the meantime, trans women should still be allowed to live their lives without facing ridicule and isolation. 
But who here is ridiculing them? No one is saying that women as a gender isn't a thing. ??? or  @Claire  ??  Are you saying that trans women doesn't exist? Do you ridicule them??? 
21
Posts: 14827
Date: 17-09-2018 18:59
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
Basil wrote:
Gunshot wrote:
I can't get over the fact that someone logs into here just to discuss this subject matter, it's kind of creepy
except i log on...do my dailies...dress up...and enjoy the site just like anybody else. sorry for being passionate about a topic that has tangible relevance to my day to day life? lol?
you've ignored hundreds of threads about gender until yesterday so I can see why it looks like you only logged on to have this debate.
21
Posts: 55745
Date: 17-09-2018 18:59
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
Claire wrote:
Basil wrote:
Claire wrote:
I am a woman because I am an adult human female. It's not like an identity to me? Like, I have blue eyes, blue eyes aren't my identity. Woman is just what I am. Adult human female. 

But this definition isn't correct then is it? Since it makes so so many people angry if I say this? I don't know how else woman should be defined though besides 'adult human female'.
nobody is mad at you for saying you identify as a woman. you are a cis woman, that is how you feel.

what we are frustrated with is the fact that there are women around the world who feel the same way. when i wake up, i am a woman. am i a cis woman? no. but how i see myself is as a woman.

you are free to identify how you please. let other women identify themselves how they please.
I don't SEE myself as a woman I simply AM an adult human female. It's not my identity. Don't force an identity on me! I do not identify as a blue eyed person, I just am one. It's not my identity it just IS.
if you didn't see yourself as a woman...you wouldn't identify as a woman...that's literally how it works.

like sure, you are a woman! good for you! there are lots of other women out there who feel the exact same way!

you're talking as if your cisgender view is absolute. if you had been born transgender, you would still feel like a woman. i don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognise the womanhood in other women.
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 19:00
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
ad0xa wrote:
Basil wrote:
i understand radical feminism already. as i said last night, i was (and still am) a big proponent of it until radical feminism was co-opted by terfs. 

which is such a shame. because i think we need to be liberated of the concepts of gender and sex, and oppression based on these. but in the meantime, trans women should still be allowed to live their lives without facing ridicule and isolation. 
But who here is ridiculing them? No one is saying that women as a gender isn't a thing. ??? or  @Claire  ??  Are you saying that trans women doesn't exist? Do you ridicule them??? 
I would never say that. First of all, it makes no sense to say trans women don't exist that would be like saying trees don't exist or the sky doesn't exist because they very clearly do exist. 

I don't want to ridicule ANYONE. Especially not someone suffering from something like dysphoria, which is quite painful from my understanding.
21
Posts: 55745
Date: 17-09-2018 19:01
Account deleted




wrote:
im SO confused, and the more i read in this thread, the more confusing it is

i think we've spiraled down a rabbit hole
Date: 17-09-2018 19:01
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