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Barbarella wrote:
spynation wrote:
i didnt expect this discussion to unfold but female only communes are even more appealling to me now except they cant just be female they also have to be raw unfiltered radical feminists gosh id love to just sit in a circle with my flatmates and explosively lose our minds over discourse while drinking tea. gonna manifest that in my dreams
I definitely look back very fondly on living with women when I was younger, renting houses with girl friends in college. 
20
Posts: 8725
Date: 11-04-2022 06:16
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ouch wrote:
Barbarella wrote:
ouch wrote:
spynation wrote:
actually true a commune might include some women u arent that familiar with

also i couldnt give less of a fuck if im viewed as terfy tbh if anything u need to dig deeper and find out who or what has driven u to react to women putting women first as bigotry... goodnight
I don't need to dig deeper, I just don't see men nor women as better than the other or more worthy of my time and energy, so I don't agree with putting women first, I agree with putting the people I find the least bad first, regardless of their grouping in society 
I mean, toxic masculinity is pretty destructive, but I have to remind myself that no one wakes up and says "I'm gonna get brainwashed today" and becomes a raging misogynist 
its years of societal indoctrination, media control, and generations of unparented girls and coddled boys. 
Yes that too, its not necessarily their "fault" really (honestly u get what I mean but I don't mean itd not their fault but also I do yes) but that doesn't mean u have to be around them obviously if you don't want to cus u shouldn't be around people by choice who make u feel bad uknow. But yeah true, gotta do more work to fix the problem instead of escape cus it will just make it worse 
16
Posts: 95663
Date: 11-04-2022 06:16
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spynation wrote:
Barbarella wrote:
spynation wrote:
i didnt expect this discussion to unfold but female only communes are even more appealling to me now except they cant just be female they also have to be raw unfiltered radical feminists gosh id love to just sit in a circle with my flatmates and explosively lose our minds over discourse while drinking tea. gonna manifest that in my dreams
I definitely look back very fondly on living with women when I was younger, renting houses with girl friends in college. 
sounds lovely, im in my early 20s and living alone atm
4
Posts: 244
Date: 11-04-2022 06:17
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ouch wrote:
spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
spynation wrote:
right u need to chillax this is the second time uve given me some emotional response and it makes no sense my typing style is so detached im offering my pov in return to urs and asking questions which is like standard forum interaction so what is the issue here lol
You sound a lot more emotional than her tho lol
do you really think that or do you just not like my opinions
I rlly think that, I don't even usually agree w barbarella and I probably don't even agree with her now either, so my own opinion doesn't cloud my judgement on what sounds emotional and not
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Posts: 95663
Date: 11-04-2022 06:17
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spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
Barbarella wrote:
ouch wrote:
I don't need to dig deeper, I just don't see men nor women as better than the other or more worthy of my time and energy, so I don't agree with putting women first, I agree with putting the people I find the least bad first, regardless of their grouping in society 
I mean, toxic masculinity is pretty destructive, but I have to remind myself that no one wakes up and says "I'm gonna get brainwashed today" and becomes a raging misogynist 
its years of societal indoctrination, media control, and generations of unparented girls and coddled boys. 
Yes that too, its not necessarily their "fault" really (honestly u get what I mean but I don't mean itd not their fault but also I do yes) but that doesn't mean u have to be around them obviously if you don't want to cus u shouldn't be around people by choice who make u feel bad uknow. But yeah true, gotta do more work to fix the problem instead of escape cus it will just make it worse 
why should the burden of that responsibility fall on the shoulders of the oppressed, why cant men just better themselves? i dont believe men can be reformed as a class by us or them, and will never loosen their grip on the established advantages theyve built for themselves and like i said before it isnt impossible for women to live their chosen "escapist" lifestyle while also engaging in feminist efforts
4
Posts: 244
Date: 11-04-2022 06:19
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Barbarella wrote:
ouch wrote:
Barbarella wrote:
ouch wrote:
I don't need to dig deeper, I just don't see men nor women as better than the other or more worthy of my time and energy, so I don't agree with putting women first, I agree with putting the people I find the least bad first, regardless of their grouping in society 
I mean, toxic masculinity is pretty destructive, but I have to remind myself that no one wakes up and says "I'm gonna get brainwashed today" and becomes a raging misogynist 
its years of societal indoctrination, media control, and generations of unparented girls and coddled boys. 
Yes that too, its not necessarily their "fault" really (honestly u get what I mean but I don't mean itd not their fault but also I do yes) but that doesn't mean u have to be around them obviously if you don't want to cus u shouldn't be around people by choice who make u feel bad uknow. But yeah true, gotta do more work to fix the problem instead of escape cus it will just make it worse 
I have been talking about it a lot with my best friend, (who is a man), talking about how much of his upbringing was just constant societal roadblocks on the way to emotional intelligence and regulation. Thinking of like, our parents generation, and our grandparents generation, they seldom had good male role models to help them build a version of themselves to be proud of.
Its one of the topics I been mulling over a lot lately, I have been trying to inspire him to incorporate it into his art. 

#sappyartistlife 
20
Posts: 8725
Date: 11-04-2022 06:19
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Barbarella wrote:
spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
Barbarella wrote:
I mean, toxic masculinity is pretty destructive, but I have to remind myself that no one wakes up and says "I'm gonna get brainwashed today" and becomes a raging misogynist 
its years of societal indoctrination, media control, and generations of unparented girls and coddled boys. 
Yes that too, its not necessarily their "fault" really (honestly u get what I mean but I don't mean itd not their fault but also I do yes) but that doesn't mean u have to be around them obviously if you don't want to cus u shouldn't be around people by choice who make u feel bad uknow. But yeah true, gotta do more work to fix the problem instead of escape cus it will just make it worse 
why should the burden of that responsibility fall on the shoulders of the oppressed, why cant men just better themselves? i dont believe men can be reformed as a class by us or them, and will never loosen their grip on the established advantages theyve built for themselves and like i said before it isnt impossible for women to live their chosen "escapist" lifestyle while also engaging in feminist efforts
It's a societal issue, it's everyone's burden because we all have to live with it. That is how communities work. 

analogy: my entire neighborhood pitches in to help spay all the feral cats in the summertime, because unless the community as a whole addresses the issue, it just festers. Some years, some neighbors can't help, other years, different ones cant help, so different ones pitch in - no one person, no one individual.
20
Posts: 8725
Date: 11-04-2022 06:23
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ouch wrote:
spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
Barbarella wrote:
I mean, toxic masculinity is pretty destructive, but I have to remind myself that no one wakes up and says "I'm gonna get brainwashed today" and becomes a raging misogynist 
its years of societal indoctrination, media control, and generations of unparented girls and coddled boys. 
Yes that too, its not necessarily their "fault" really (honestly u get what I mean but I don't mean itd not their fault but also I do yes) but that doesn't mean u have to be around them obviously if you don't want to cus u shouldn't be around people by choice who make u feel bad uknow. But yeah true, gotta do more work to fix the problem instead of escape cus it will just make it worse 
why should the burden of that responsibility fall on the shoulders of the oppressed, why cant men just better themselves? i dont believe men can be reformed as a class by us or them, and will never loosen their grip on the established advantages theyve built for themselves and like i said before it isnt impossible for women to live their chosen "escapist" lifestyle while also engaging in feminist efforts
How are men going to better themselves by themselves. It goes through generations of the same thought patterns being tought down to the children and their children and so on and so on, won't fix anything without outside interferance. Doesn't mean u have to go try to "fix" every man in your life, but implementing better education about emotions, sexism, etc  in schools would already help a lot. Also stopping as a society to look down on literal children for being born in a male body and showing them no hope of a future of being better than their previous generations, or teaching them that its ok to act like a dick because boys will be boys right. 
16
Posts: 95663
Date: 11-04-2022 06:25
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Barbarella wrote:
ouch wrote:
Barbarella the most read person on vp on this topic I think ouff. And pickles 
I do also know a lot about pickles I am glad you remembered that
it's almost pickling season
20
Posts: 8725
Date: 11-04-2022 06:27
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spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
Yes that too, its not necessarily their "fault" really (honestly u get what I mean but I don't mean itd not their fault but also I do yes) but that doesn't mean u have to be around them obviously if you don't want to cus u shouldn't be around people by choice who make u feel bad uknow. But yeah true, gotta do more work to fix the problem instead of escape cus it will just make it worse 
why should the burden of that responsibility fall on the shoulders of the oppressed, why cant men just better themselves? i dont believe men can be reformed as a class by us or them, and will never loosen their grip on the established advantages theyve built for themselves and like i said before it isnt impossible for women to live their chosen "escapist" lifestyle while also engaging in feminist efforts
How are men going to better themselves by themselves. It goes through generations of the same thought patterns being tought down to the children and their children and so on and so on, won't fix anything without outside interferance. Doesn't mean u have to go try to "fix" every man in your life, but implementing better education about emotions, sexism, etc  in schools would already help a lot. Also stopping as a society to look down on literal children for being born in a male body and showing them no hope of a future of being better than their previous generations, or teaching them that its ok to act like a dick because boys will be boys right. 
okay well for the 3rd time men cant be reformed as a class and this is because a lot of the pain inflicted on women and children at the hands of men is inherent to them from birth. and if thats not the case... then where did it all come from before generations of brainwashing? the sky? i dont believe there was a certain cutoff point. also everything feminists do to teach others about why feminism is important and what patriarchy actually is, is met with outrage and regression repeatedly through history so like hows that even gonna kick off in a mainstream educational setting
4
Posts: 244
Date: 11-04-2022 06:32
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Barbarella wrote:
spynation wrote:
Barbarella wrote:
spynation wrote:
i didnt expect this discussion to unfold but female only communes are even more appealling to me now except they cant just be female they also have to be raw unfiltered radical feminists gosh id love to just sit in a circle with my flatmates and explosively lose our minds over discourse while drinking tea. gonna manifest that in my dreams
I definitely look back very fondly on living with women when I was younger, renting houses with girl friends in college. 
sounds lovely, im in my early 20s and living alone atm
I'm really not sure I'd enjoy it the same way now that I'm at a different place in life
but it was definitely an important phase for me
20
Posts: 8725
Date: 11-04-2022 06:33
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spynation wrote:
i actually have to go to bed now wtf am i doing..... all in all women first end of
4
Posts: 244
Date: 11-04-2022 06:33
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ouch wrote:
spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
spynation wrote:
why should the burden of that responsibility fall on the shoulders of the oppressed, why cant men just better themselves? i dont believe men can be reformed as a class by us or them, and will never loosen their grip on the established advantages theyve built for themselves and like i said before it isnt impossible for women to live their chosen "escapist" lifestyle while also engaging in feminist efforts
How are men going to better themselves by themselves. It goes through generations of the same thought patterns being tought down to the children and their children and so on and so on, won't fix anything without outside interferance. Doesn't mean u have to go try to "fix" every man in your life, but implementing better education about emotions, sexism, etc  in schools would already help a lot. Also stopping as a society to look down on literal children for being born in a male body and showing them no hope of a future of being better than their previous generations, or teaching them that its ok to act like a dick because boys will be boys right. 
okay well for the 3rd time men cant be reformed as a class and this is because a lot of the pain inflicted on women and children at the hands of men is inherent to them from birth. and if thats not the case... then where did it all come from before generations of brainwashing? the sky? i dont believe there was a certain cutoff point. also everything feminists do to teach others about why feminism is important and what patriarchy actually is, is met with outrage and regression repeatedly through history so like hows that even gonna kick off in a mainstream educational setting
Its already kicking off lol, u think boys being raised now will be the same as 20, 40, 60 + years ago 🤨🤨
16
Posts: 95663
Date: 11-04-2022 06:36
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Barbarella wrote:
ouch wrote:
spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
Yes that too, its not necessarily their "fault" really (honestly u get what I mean but I don't mean itd not their fault but also I do yes) but that doesn't mean u have to be around them obviously if you don't want to cus u shouldn't be around people by choice who make u feel bad uknow. But yeah true, gotta do more work to fix the problem instead of escape cus it will just make it worse 
why should the burden of that responsibility fall on the shoulders of the oppressed, why cant men just better themselves? i dont believe men can be reformed as a class by us or them, and will never loosen their grip on the established advantages theyve built for themselves and like i said before it isnt impossible for women to live their chosen "escapist" lifestyle while also engaging in feminist efforts
How are men going to better themselves by themselves. It goes through generations of the same thought patterns being tought down to the children and their children and so on and so on, won't fix anything without outside interferance. Doesn't mean u have to go try to "fix" every man in your life, but implementing better education about emotions, sexism, etc  in schools would already help a lot. Also stopping as a society to look down on literal children for being born in a male body and showing them no hope of a future of being better than their previous generations, or teaching them that its ok to act like a dick because boys will be boys right. 
I try to use my privilege (and acceptance in the community I'm in) by talking to them yeehaw truck boys - the middle aged redneck dudes, asking clarifying questions when they say something that feels misogynistic or racist, because I just have a way with that community, I understand them and they understand me. Then, they question themselves, or ask me more questions. - it doesn't always go far but it plants a seed, and since I personally feel safe enough to do that, I try to do so whenever the timing feels right (and if I have the spoons for it lol)

The dude I sold my subaru to still messages me on facebook every now and then wondering what I think about something he's read in the news, hah. I'm always happy to indulge if they're genuinely inquisitive and not using it as a way to lead some argument. 
20
Posts: 8725
Date: 11-04-2022 06:39
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spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
spynation wrote:
ouch wrote:
How are men going to better themselves by themselves. It goes through generations of the same thought patterns being tought down to the children and their children and so on and so on, won't fix anything without outside interferance. Doesn't mean u have to go try to "fix" every man in your life, but implementing better education about emotions, sexism, etc  in schools would already help a lot. Also stopping as a society to look down on literal children for being born in a male body and showing them no hope of a future of being better than their previous generations, or teaching them that its ok to act like a dick because boys will be boys right. 
okay well for the 3rd time men cant be reformed as a class and this is because a lot of the pain inflicted on women and children at the hands of men is inherent to them from birth. and if thats not the case... then where did it all come from before generations of brainwashing? the sky? i dont believe there was a certain cutoff point. also everything feminists do to teach others about why feminism is important and what patriarchy actually is, is met with outrage and regression repeatedly through history so like hows that even gonna kick off in a mainstream educational setting
Its already kicking off lol, u think boys being raised now will be the same as 20, 40, 60 + years ago 🤨🤨
babes.... boys being raised now are already sexually assaulting their female classmates. i saw it happen in my day and now my sister is seeing it happen + the mountain of cases ive read about in the past year. sooo what were u saying
4
Posts: 244
Date: 11-04-2022 06:39
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