before we start more gender related discussio - Forum

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Gunshot wrote:

Basil wrote:

Gunshot wrote:
I can't get over the fact that someone logs into here just to discuss this subject matter, it's kind of creepy

except i log on...do my dailies...dress up...and enjoy the site just like anybody else. sorry for being passionate about a topic that has tangible relevance to my day to day life? lol?

You attack as well like, you're not being adult about the discussion, and you don't even read what's being said yet you complain that others are not reading what you say? It's a very simple answer to this question. Quit talking about "identifying". Like being a woman is a part of someones personality when it's not?? Human beings are human beings, besides of their genitals and purposes like a woman gets her periods and can push out babies???

Pavlov
International Star

Pavlov wrote:
you have still not answered my question you have only digressed it

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Claire wrote:

Basil wrote:

Claire wrote:

Basil wrote:
nobody is mad at you for saying you identify as a woman. you are a cis woman, that is how you feel.

what we are frustrated with is the fact that there are women around the world who feel the same way. when i wake up, i am a woman. am i a cis woman? no. but how i see myself is as a woman.

you are free to identify how you please. let other women identify themselves how they please.

I don't SEE myself as a woman I simply AM an adult human female. It's not my identity. Don't force an identity on me! I do not identify as a blue eyed person, I just am one. It's not my identity it just IS.

if you didn't see yourself as a woman...you wouldn't identify as a woman...that's literally how it works.

like sure, you are a woman! good for you! there are lots of other women out there who feel the exact same way!

you're talking as if your cisgender view is absolute. if you had been born transgender, you would still feel like a woman. i don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognise the womanhood in other women.

But it's not identity to me. I don't identify as woman. I AM an adult human female, and that used to be the definition of woman. I don't even fully understand WHAT woman is at this point, nobody is defining it for me. For all I know it is NOT something I would want to identify as. If there were a clear definition I could decide.

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wrote:

Vortex wrote:

Yoko wrote:
" defining 'male' vs 'female' is an impossible task "

how do u define them

Basil
Youtube Star

Basil wrote:

ad0xa wrote:

Claire wrote:

Basil wrote:
also if you read my post, i did define what a woman is.

she is defined by herself, defined (against her will) by society, and she is also subject to the pain that all women face at the hands of the patriarchy.

So a woman is a person who is subjected to pain under patriarchy?

Don't men also suffer from bad parts of patriarchy? Like toxic masculinity hurts men too, right? Are men women then?

I think everyone is woman?

no, men do not face gender-based oppression. they might feel the after effects, ie being shamed and ridiculed for being 'too effeminate'. but that again goes back to my main point: 'woman' as an identity is treated horribly in society. they are posited as the 'lesser' gender, and that reflects in every aspect of their lives.

i'm not sure if you're attempting to deliberately obfuscate my point or if you genuinely don't understand the axis of oppression that works against women.

Pavlov
International Star

Pavlov wrote:

Claire wrote:

Basil wrote:

Claire wrote:
I don't SEE myself as a woman I simply AM an adult human female. It's not my identity. Don't force an identity on me! I do not identify as a blue eyed person, I just am one. It's not my identity it just IS.

if you didn't see yourself as a woman...you wouldn't identify as a woman...that's literally how it works.

like sure, you are a woman! good for you! there are lots of other women out there who feel the exact same way!

you're talking as if your cisgender view is absolute. if you had been born transgender, you would still feel like a woman. i don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognise the womanhood in other women.

But it's not identity to me. I don't identify as woman. I AM an adult human female, and that used to be the definition of woman. I don't even fully understand WHAT woman is at this point, nobody is defining it for me. For all I know it is NOT something I would want to identify as. If there were a clear definition I could decide.

claire you have lost your female identity privilege you are a man now, sorry

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Yoko wrote:

Vortex wrote:

Yoko wrote:
" defining 'male' vs 'female' is an impossible task "

how do u define them

sorry i went to get cookies but heres my personal answer . with regard to humans in particular, obviously cause thats what we're discussing.

male:

a person bearing an X + Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei

usually produces sperm (gamete specific to them - being male human)

various disorders of sex development (this is a controversial term, most would say intersex instead which is fair enough and understandable) have been documented that affect development of anatomical sex, gonadal sex and chromosomal sex . however atypical sex development doesn't change the fact that humans are sexually dimorphic - just as people being born with one or zero legs doesn't stop humans from being a bipedal species

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wrote:

Claire wrote:

Annihilation wrote:

Claire wrote:
What they said is nice and good and not wrong, but they never actually defined the word woman so I don't fully understand them.

to me they make more sense than anyone else in this thread. sure, others have defined the word based on their own experiences, opinions and beliefs in regards of the matter at hand, but it really feels like it’s getting lost due to group polarization. i mean i can definitely see it when reading the comments

Can you define the word woman?

nah, i can’t. i don’t think defining the word ‘woman’ is easy nor should it be easy. its not black and white and i don’t think it ever will be. id say ‘a being consisting of flesh and bones’, but then i wouldn’t be answering the question, as my answer can fit to every other human

Ad0xa
World Famous

ad0xa wrote:

Basil wrote:

Claire wrote:

Basil wrote:
nobody is mad at you for saying you identify as a woman. you are a cis woman, that is how you feel.

what we are frustrated with is the fact that there are women around the world who feel the same way. when i wake up, i am a woman. am i a cis woman? no. but how i see myself is as a woman.

you are free to identify how you please. let other women identify themselves how they please.

I don't SEE myself as a woman I simply AM an adult human female. It's not my identity. Don't force an identity on me! I do not identify as a blue eyed person, I just am one. It's not my identity it just IS.

if you didn't see yourself as a woman...you wouldn't identify as a woman...that's literally how it works.

like sure, you are a woman! good for you! there are lots of other women out there who feel the exact same way!

you're talking as if your cisgender view is absolute. if you had been born transgender, you would still feel like a woman. i don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognise the womanhood in other women.

This isn't even the point of the topic tho. What IS a woman?
Some background: A lot of the time when we use the word woman or women on this site people freak out and say that people are discriminating or ridicule trans women..... or like... that's where this all started I think.

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Claire wrote:

Monarch wrote:

Claire wrote:

Basil wrote:
if you didn't see yourself as a woman...you wouldn't identify as a woman...that's literally how it works.

like sure, you are a woman! good for you! there are lots of other women out there who feel the exact same way!

you're talking as if your cisgender view is absolute. if you had been born transgender, you would still feel like a woman. i don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognise the womanhood in other women.

But it's not identity to me. I don't identify as woman. I AM an adult human female, and that used to be the definition of woman. I don't even fully understand WHAT woman is at this point, nobody is defining it for me. For all I know it is NOT something I would want to identify as. If there were a clear definition I could decide.

claire you have lost your female identity privelege you are a man now, sorry

: ( what does this mean for me?? what does this change???

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Claire wrote:

Annihilation wrote:

Claire wrote:

Annihilation wrote:
to me they make more sense than anyone else in this thread. sure, others have defined the word based on their own experiences, opinions and beliefs in regards of the matter at hand, but it really feels like it’s getting lost due to group polarization. i mean i can definitely see it when reading the comments

Can you define the word woman?

nah, i can’t. i don’t think defining the word ‘woman’ is easy nor should it be easy. its not black and white and i don’t think it ever will be. id say ‘a being consisting of flesh and bones’, but then i wouldn’t be answering the question, as my answer can fit to every other human

So this word is completely useless. We can't define it, so why bother using it?

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Rosa wrote:

Claire wrote:

Annihilation wrote:
alright, reading through this thread, hennastii and rosa makes some good points that i find myself agreeing w.

What they said is nice and good and not wrong, but they never actually defined the word woman so I don't fully understand them.

I don't know what a woman is. I'm not a woman. I can't answer this.
If I'd describe MY gender, I generally describe as non-binary. The word non-binary means maaaaaany things though. It's mostly a gathering of genders that aren't binary (ciswomen/men+transwomen/men) (I dont wanna call it genderidentities since they are valid as GENDERS) I feel that "genderidentity" is a bit reducing.
I know I'm non-binary* because of many facts. Examples, self-expression, any type of expression, many sorts of preferences, me personally not feeling feminine (which you don't have to feel, I DO and I feel that it's not me) and people putting me in different categories and assumes things about me that aren't accurate- since I have two large lumps of fat+nipples somewhere under my chin. As I said, gender is a social construct

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Claire wrote:

ad0xa wrote:

Basil wrote:

Claire wrote:
I don't SEE myself as a woman I simply AM an adult human female. It's not my identity. Don't force an identity on me! I do not identify as a blue eyed person, I just am one. It's not my identity it just IS.

if you didn't see yourself as a woman...you wouldn't identify as a woman...that's literally how it works.

like sure, you are a woman! good for you! there are lots of other women out there who feel the exact same way!

you're talking as if your cisgender view is absolute. if you had been born transgender, you would still feel like a woman. i don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognise the womanhood in other women.

This isn't even the point of the topic tho. What IS a woman?
Some background: A lot of the time when we use the word woman or women on this site people freak out and say that people are discriminating or ridicule trans women..... or like... that's where this all started I think.

It doesn't feel right for people to get angry over the use of the word woman. That feels like sexism to me. I don't mean to discriminatory, but shouldn't we be able to talk about women without accusations of horrible things like bigotry?? Isn't it kind of bigotry to not allow women to use the word woman????

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scoff wrote:
if i answer you'll call me terf and kill me

Basil
Youtube Star

Basil wrote:

Gunshot wrote:

Basil wrote:

Gunshot wrote:
I can't get over the fact that someone logs into here just to discuss this subject matter, it's kind of creepy

except i log on...do my dailies...dress up...and enjoy the site just like anybody else. sorry for being passionate about a topic that has tangible relevance to my day to day life? lol?

You attack as well like, you're not being adult about the discussion, and you don't even read what's being said yet you complain that others are not reading what you say? It's a very simple answer to this question. Quit talking about "identifying". Like being a woman is a part of someones personality when it's not?? Human beings are human beings, besides of their genitals and purposes like a woman gets her periods and can push out babies???

except there are SO many women who do not have periods and do not have babies. many more women like that than trans women in the world.

i'm not sure what posts you are reading lol, pretty much every post i have made so far in this thread has been about this topic and delving deeper into it. i have read every post, i respond to the ones that actually further the discussion.

being a woman is a part of your personality. inherently, women go through the world in a different manner than men. they are treated differently to the extreme--forced into paths they don't want, bearing pain that they don't deserve.

being a woman is an identity that most of us in this thread have taken on. if any of you didn't like that identity, you would be transgender.

it's hard to explain this concept to cis people because it is a disconnection that they will likely never feel. transgender brains are more similar in structure to the gender they identify as.