before we start more gender related discussio - Forum

Private
World Famous

Yoko wrote:

Basil wrote:
i understand radical feminism already. as i said last night, i was (and still am) a big proponent of it until radical feminism was co-opted by terfs.

which is such a shame. because i think we need to be liberated of the concepts of gender and sex, and oppression based on these. but in the meantime, trans women should still be allowed to live their lives without facing ridicule and isolation.

radical feminism fundamentally is focused on female liberation FROM gender and sex based oppression. not liberation of a particular gender identity .

you say youre a proponent of it but you fail to even understand the basics ??

Ad0xa
World Famous

ad0xa wrote:

Basil wrote:

ad0xa wrote:

Claire wrote:
So a woman is a person who is subjected to pain under patriarchy?

Don't men also suffer from bad parts of patriarchy? Like toxic masculinity hurts men too, right? Are men women then?

I think everyone is woman?

no, men do not face gender-based oppression. they might feel the after effects, ie being shamed and ridiculed for being 'too effeminate'. but that again goes back to my main point: 'woman' as an identity is treated horribly in society. they are posited as the 'lesser' gender, and that reflects in every aspect of their lives.

i'm not sure if you're attempting to deliberately obfuscate my point or if you genuinely don't understand the axis of oppression that works against women.

I like how you ignore every post where I make a good point and where you see a chance to sound more educated you comment XD this was just a joke obviously.
But you are kind of saying it tho. Look at the other post I answered to before this.

GenderTeam
World Famous

GenderTeam wrote:

Ad0xa
World Famous

ad0xa wrote:

Claire wrote:

Annihilation wrote:

Claire wrote:
Can you define the word woman?

nah, i can’t. i don’t think defining the word ‘woman’ is easy nor should it be easy. its not black and white and i don’t think it ever will be. id say ‘a being consisting of flesh and bones’, but then i wouldn’t be answering the question, as my answer can fit to every other human

So this word is completely useless. We can't define it, so why bother using it?

If women doesn't exist as a defining word... does that mean sexism is over???? ARE WE ALL MEN NOW???

Private
World Famous

Rosa wrote:

Claire wrote:

Annihilation wrote:
alright, reading through this thread, hennastii and rosa makes some good points that i find myself agreeing w.

What they said is nice and good and not wrong, but they never actually defined the word woman so I don't fully understand them.

I don't know what a woman is. I'm not a woman. I can't answer this.
If I'd describe MY gender, I generally describe as non-binary. The word non-binary means maaaaaany things though. It's mostly a gathering of genders that aren't binary (ciswomen/men+transwomen/men) (I dont wanna call it genderidentities since they are valid as GENDERS) I feel that "genderidentity" is a bit reducing.
I know I'm non-binary* because of many facts. Examples, self-expression, any type of expression, many sorts of preferences, me personally not feeling feminine (which you don't have to feel, I DO and I feel that it's not me) and people putting me in different categories and assumes things about me that aren't accurate- since I have two large lumps of fat+nipples somewhere under my chin. As I said, gender is a social construct

I want to add that this is MY experience, my human body, my mind. It's different for many people.

Account deleted

wrote:
can someone try to simplify and tell me what you all are disagreeing on
cause when i read through the answers they seem similar, but you're still fighting about it
so im confused and i feel dumb

Pavlov
International Star

Pavlov wrote:

Basil wrote:

it's hard to explain this concept to cis people because it is a disconnection that they will likely never feel. transgender brains are more similar in structure to the gender they identify as.

can someone please prove whether or not men and women have a brain. i need to know, because then im apparently a man

Ad0xa
World Famous

ad0xa wrote:

Rosa wrote:

Claire wrote:
What they said is nice and good and not wrong, but they never actually defined the word woman so I don't fully understand them.

I don't know what a woman is. I'm not a woman. I can't answer this.
If I'd describe MY gender, I generally describe as non-binary. The word non-binary means maaaaaany things though. It's mostly a gathering of genders that aren't binary (ciswomen/men+transwomen/men) (I dont wanna call it genderidentities since they are valid as GENDERS) I feel that "genderidentity" is a bit reducing.
I know I'm non-binary* because of many facts. Examples, self-expression, any type of expression, many sorts of preferences, me personally not feeling feminine (which you don't have to feel, I DO and I feel that it's not me) and people putting me in different categories and assumes things about me that aren't accurate- since I have two large lumps of fat+nipples somewhere under my chin. As I said, gender is a social construct

I want to add that this is MY experience, my human body, my mind. It's different for many people.

You're not wrong. But you're talking about gender. The thread is more about the word "woman" as a whole.

Basil
Youtube Star

Basil wrote:

Claire wrote:

ad0xa wrote:

Basil wrote:
if you didn't see yourself as a woman...you wouldn't identify as a woman...that's literally how it works.

like sure, you are a woman! good for you! there are lots of other women out there who feel the exact same way!

you're talking as if your cisgender view is absolute. if you had been born transgender, you would still feel like a woman. i don't understand why it's so hard for you to recognise the womanhood in other women.

This isn't even the point of the topic tho. What IS a woman?
Some background: A lot of the time when we use the word woman or women on this site people freak out and say that people are discriminating or ridicule trans women..... or like... that's where this all started I think.

It doesn't feel right for people to get angry over the use of the word woman. That feels like sexism to me. I don't mean to discriminatory, but shouldn't we be able to talk about women without accusations of horrible things like bigotry?? Isn't it kind of bigotry to not allow women to use the word woman????

i've already defined what a woman is, several times, and several different pages. if you would like to debate my definition, feel free to quote it and discuss it with me. but i have been very forthright in my description of what a woman is, so please do not act as if i'm skirting the basis of this thread.

additionally, nobody is freaking out over the usage of the word woman. what i am debating, however, is how we apply this woman. point blank, it is bigotry to exclude an entire group of women from their own identity. what gives you the right? especially considering all these varied responses to this thread; what defines a woman comes from WITHIN herself, and it is then subjugated to EXTERNAL PRESSURES AND PERCEPTIONS.

that's why nobody on this thread can come to a consensus. because every woman on here is different, has different experiences and has endured different external pressures.

Private
World Famous

Rosa wrote:

ad0xa wrote:

Rosa wrote:

Rosa wrote:
I don't know what a woman is. I'm not a woman. I can't answer this.
If I'd describe MY gender, I generally describe as non-binary. The word non-binary means maaaaaany things though. It's mostly a gathering of genders that aren't binary (ciswomen/men+transwomen/men) (I dont wanna call it genderidentities since they are valid as GENDERS) I feel that "genderidentity" is a bit reducing.
I know I'm non-binary* because of many facts. Examples, self-expression, any type of expression, many sorts of preferences, me personally not feeling feminine (which you don't have to feel, I DO and I feel that it's not me) and people putting me in different categories and assumes things about me that aren't accurate- since I have two large lumps of fat+nipples somewhere under my chin. As I said, gender is a social construct

I want to add that this is MY experience, my human body, my mind. It's different for many people.

You're not wrong. But you're talking about gender. The thread is more about the word "woman" as a whole.

I know! But that's the point. I'm using myself as an example

Private
Popstar

Gunshot wrote:

Basil wrote:

Gunshot wrote:

Basil wrote:
except i log on...do my dailies...dress up...and enjoy the site just like anybody else. sorry for being passionate about a topic that has tangible relevance to my day to day life? lol?

You attack as well like, you're not being adult about the discussion, and you don't even read what's being said yet you complain that others are not reading what you say? It's a very simple answer to this question. Quit talking about "identifying". Like being a woman is a part of someones personality when it's not?? Human beings are human beings, besides of their genitals and purposes like a woman gets her periods and can push out babies???

except there are SO many women who do not have periods and do not have babies. many more women like that than trans women in the world.

i'm not sure what posts you are reading lol, pretty much every post i have made so far in this thread has been about this topic and delving deeper into it. i have read every post, i respond to the ones that actually further the discussion.

being a woman is a part of your personality. inherently, women go through the world in a different manner than men. they are treated differently to the extreme--forced into paths they don't want, bearing pain that they don't deserve.

being a woman is an identity that most of us in this thread have taken on. if any of you didn't like that identity, you would be transgender.

it's hard to explain this concept to cis people because it is a disconnection that they will likely never feel. transgender brains are more similar in structure to the gender they identify as.

I didn't say that but since people ask what a woman is, I have to explain it simple and so.
Are you calling me transgender because I don't identify as a "woman personality"? That doesn't even make any sense.
I was assigned a gender at birth and I didn't have a choice in the matter and this is what happened okay, but it's not a personality trait, I don't identify as a woman?? I know I am a woman because of my genitals and I get periods and I can push out babies, that's the part of me that is woman. Okay!

Account deleted

wrote:

Claire wrote:

Annihilation wrote:

Claire wrote:
Can you define the word woman?

nah, i can’t. i don’t think defining the word ‘woman’ is easy nor should it be easy. its not black and white and i don’t think it ever will be. id say ‘a being consisting of flesh and bones’, but then i wouldn’t be answering the question, as my answer can fit to every other human

So this word is completely useless. We can't define it, so why bother using it?

im sure that to some people it’s not merely useless. but why we use it ?? idk. for me it makes the most sense if we as humans like to stick to words and things that brings us a sense of reassurance and self identification.

Private
World Famous

Claire wrote:

Monarch wrote:

Basil wrote:

it's hard to explain this concept to cis people because it is a disconnection that they will likely never feel. transgender brains are more similar in structure to the gender they identify as.

can someone please prove whether or not men and women have difference in brains. i need to know, because then im apparently a man

in my neuropsychology class we breifly talked about differences between male and female brains as being a myth for the most part.

i think the suggestion is quite offensive. like my lady brain is more suited to lady tasks or something??? i also think looking into the term 'neurosexism' might be useful

Luna
Popstar

Luna wrote:
You know, my mom has this really weird habit. She loves watching those Real House Wives shows. She does not enjoy the shows- she hates all the people on them and every thing they do. She only watches them so she can be angry at/over them.

That is literally what like 90% of you "discussing" in this thread are doing. None of you came in here to actually have a civil debate or even answer the damn question, y'all just came in here to be angry at one another because y'all know damn well none of you ever intended on letting your opinions change.

It's really funny honestly.

Anyway, a woman biologically is someone born with female genitals that is now an adult. A woman socially is someone who, even if not born with female genitals, identifies as female. That's how I define it, but ultimately it's whatever and I'm fairly indifferent.

Basil
Youtube Star

Basil wrote:

Yoko wrote:

Vortex wrote:

Yoko wrote:
" defining 'male' vs 'female' is an impossible task "

how do u define them

sorry i went to get cookies but heres my personal answer . with regard to humans in particular, obviously cause thats what we're discussing.

male:

a person bearing an X + Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei

usually produces sperm (gamete specific to them - being male human)

various disorders of sex development (this is a controversial term, most would say intersex instead which is fair enough and understandable) have been documented that affect development of anatomical sex, gonadal sex and chromosomal sex . however atypical sex development doesn't change the fact that humans are sexually dimorphic - just as people being born with one or zero legs doesn't stop humans from being a bipedal species

except...it's more common to be intersex than it is to be born with red hair. and those are only the reported statistics.

we as humans came up with the words male and female to describe particular attributes. by the same token, we as humans have to evolve our language when we begin to realise that dimorphism is an extremely restrictive viewpoint, considering how much individual variation there is even without chromosomal differences.