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before we start more gender related discussio
Ad0xa
World Famous



ad0xa wrote:
Vortex wrote:
can someone try to simplify and tell me what you all are disagreeing on
cause when i read through the answers they seem similar, but you're still fighting about it
so im confused and i feel dumb
Some people don't like the word woman.

Some people try to help by defining their experience - which is fine... but claire is trying to spark a more philosofical discussion on why people don't like the word woman.
And why we even need words if we take all the meanings away from them. What is defining the word for people who get upset by it....  it's actually a carry-over from another thread.

Then there are some who just doesn't get the question at all and find it very offensive and start arguing about gender when that's not even the point. 
21
Posts: 14827
Date: 17-09-2018 19:12
Private
National Star



scoff wrote:
A woman is a person born with a vagina, and that's it. It's not a personality, it's not an emotion, it's not a hobby - it's a biological fact. Denying that is way more harmful than refusing to validate three billion genders. In order to reach equality, we need to abolish gender roles, not enforce them by saying people that don't feel comfortable with being women due to society aren't women.

Sex is like skin color - it's strictly bilogical and unfortunately can come with major disadvantages.
20
Posts: 34410
Date: 17-09-2018 19:12 | Times changed: 1
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
Yoko wrote:
Basil wrote:
i understand radical feminism already. as i said last night, i was (and still am) a big proponent of it until radical feminism was co-opted by terfs. 

which is such a shame. because i think we need to be liberated of the concepts of gender and sex, and oppression based on these. but in the meantime, trans women should still be allowed to live their lives without facing ridicule and isolation. 
radical feminism fundamentally is focused on female liberation FROM gender and sex based oppression.     not liberation of a particular gender identity .

you say youre a proponent of it but you fail to even understand the basics ??
it's like you don't even read what i say.

me: i think we need to be liberated of the concepts of gender and sex, and oppression based on these.
you: radical feminism fundamentally is focused on female liberation FROM gender and sex based oppression.     not liberation of a particular gender identity .

like????????????
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 19:13
Pavlov
International Star



Pavlov wrote:
scoff wrote:
A woman is a person born with a vagina, and that's it. It's not a personality, it's not an emotion, it's not an hobby - it's a biological fact. Denying that is way more harmful than refusing to validate three billion genders. In order to reach equality, we need to abolish gender roles, not enforce them by saying people that don't feel comfortable with being women due to society aren't women.

Sex is like skin color - it's strictly bilogical and unfortunately can come with major disadvantages.
thank you
15
Posts: 29813
Date: 17-09-2018 19:13
Private
National Star



scoff wrote:
I'm not denying trans people exist, tho, but a trans woman will always be a trans woman.
20
Posts: 34410
Date: 17-09-2018 19:13
Basil
Youtube Star



Basil wrote:
Monarch wrote:
Basil wrote:

it's hard to explain this concept to cis people because it is a disconnection that they will likely never feel. transgender brains are more similar in structure to the gender they identify as.
can someone please prove whether or not men and women have a brain. i need to know, because then im apparently a man
literally read this article instead of, idk, obfuscating my point that's grounded in y'know...science...
19
Posts: 3930
Date: 17-09-2018 19:15
Private
International Star



wug wrote:
Claire wrote:
Monarch wrote:
Basil wrote:

it's hard to explain this concept to cis people because it is a disconnection that they will likely never feel. transgender brains are more similar in structure to the gender they identify as.
can someone please prove whether or not men and women have difference in brains. i need to know, because then im apparently a man
in my neuropsychology class we breifly talked about differences between male and female brains as being a myth for the most part.

i think the suggestion is quite offensive. like my lady brain is more suited to lady tasks or something??? i also think looking into the term 'neurosexism' might be useful
I have no idea why this made me laugh, probably because I highly doubt that gender was a social construct when humans began to take form I doubt the "proto-men" told the "proto-women" to do lady tasks, like "why are you helping us wtf shouldn't you pick flowers or something" 

I know this sounds sexist and it's just to illustrate how ridiculous this sounds, and I don't disagree with your point. 
19
Posts: 108104
Date: 17-09-2018 19:15
Private
World Famous



Rosa wrote:
Basil wrote:
Yoko wrote:
Vortex wrote:

how do u define them
sorry i went to get cookies but heres my personal answer  .   with regard to humans in particular, obviously cause thats what we're discussing.

male:

a person bearing an X + Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei

usually produces sperm (gamete specific to them - being male human)

various disorders of sex development (this is a controversial term,  most would say intersex instead which is fair enough  and understandable)  have been documented that affect development of anatomical sex, gonadal sex and chromosomal sex .  however atypical sex development doesn't change the fact that humans are sexually dimorphic -  just as people being born with one or zero legs doesn't stop humans from being a bipedal species
except...it's more common to be intersex than it is to be born with red hair. and those are only the reported statistics.

we as humans came up with the words male and female to describe particular attributes. by the same token, we as humans have to evolve our language when we begin to realise that dimorphism is an extremely restrictive viewpoint, considering how much individual variation there is even without chromosomal differences. 
btw hi!! i've read what you've written in this thread and I think you have some very good points in all of this. You formulate well.  Just had to tell u!! rock on 
17
Posts: 5207
Date: 17-09-2018 19:15
Private
National Star



scoff wrote:
Basically at the end of the day, if we ever finally reach equality, gender or sex won't fucking matter at all.
20
Posts: 34410
Date: 17-09-2018 19:15
Account deleted




wrote:
Luna wrote:
You know, my mom has this really weird habit. She loves watching those Real House Wives shows. She does not enjoy the shows- she hates all the people on them and every thing they do. She only watches them so she can be angry at/over them.

That is literally what like 90% of you "discussing" in this thread are doing. None of you came in here to actually have a civil debate or even answer the damn question, y'all just came in here to be angry at one another because y'all know damn well none of you ever intended on letting your opinions change.

It's really funny honestly.

Anyway, a woman biologically is someone born with female genitals that is now an adult. A woman socially is someone who, even if not born with female genitals, identifies as female. That's how I define it, but ultimately it's whatever and I'm fairly indifferent.

YES, this is how im interpereting this too, and I think that's why I'm so confused by this.
Also, several people have defined the word how they see it, and yet people are complaining about how people havent answered the question.
Date: 17-09-2018 19:16
Private
World Famous



Rosa wrote:
scoff wrote:
I'm not denying trans people exist, tho, but a trans woman will always be a trans woman.
You kinda just did, though. 
17
Posts: 5207
Date: 17-09-2018 19:16
Ad0xa
World Famous



ad0xa wrote:
scoff wrote:
Basically at the end of the day, if we ever finally reach equality, gender or sex won't fucking matter at all.
yaaas
21
Posts: 14827
Date: 17-09-2018 19:17
Pavlov
International Star



Pavlov wrote:
i found the old shit storm thread http://en.virtualpopstar.com/social/forum?category=2&topic=239677
15
Posts: 29813
Date: 17-09-2018 19:17
Private
World Famous



Claire wrote:
scoff wrote:
Basically at the end of the day, if we ever finally reach equality, gender or sex won't fucking matter at all.
sex will still matter. i am a heterosexual woman. i will only sleep with males. sex matters. sex will always matter because people will always have a sexual orientation of who they want to fuck.
21
Posts: 55744
Date: 17-09-2018 19:18
Luna
Popstar



Luna wrote:
Vortex wrote:
Luna wrote:
You know, my mom has this really weird habit. She loves watching those Real House Wives shows. She does not enjoy the shows- she hates all the people on them and every thing they do. She only watches them so she can be angry at/over them.

That is literally what like 90% of you "discussing" in this thread are doing. None of you came in here to actually have a civil debate or even answer the damn question, y'all just came in here to be angry at one another because y'all know damn well none of you ever intended on letting your opinions change.

It's really funny honestly.

Anyway, a woman biologically is someone born with female genitals that is now an adult. A woman socially is someone who, even if not born with female genitals, identifies as female. That's how I define it, but ultimately it's whatever and I'm fairly indifferent.

YES, this is how im interpereting this too, and I think that's why I'm so confused by this.
Also, several people have defined the word how they see it, and yet people are complaining about how people havent answered the question.
I guess I haven't noticed the answers because of all the angry brick walls yelling at each other in this thread
20
Posts: 7685
Date: 17-09-2018 19:18
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