before we start more gender related discussio - Forum

Private
World Famous

Claire wrote:

Monarch wrote:
i found the old shit storm thread http://en.virtualpopstar.com/social/forum?category=2&topic=239677

lol i forgot we talked about castration that day that was fun

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World Famous

Claire wrote:
i hope you are proud of what you have done here lmao

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World Famous

Yoko wrote:

Basil wrote:

Yoko wrote:

Basil wrote:
i understand radical feminism already. as i said last night, i was (and still am) a big proponent of it until radical feminism was co-opted by terfs.

which is such a shame. because i think we need to be liberated of the concepts of gender and sex, and oppression based on these. but in the meantime, trans women should still be allowed to live their lives without facing ridicule and isolation.

radical feminism fundamentally is focused on female liberation FROM gender and sex based oppression. not liberation of a particular gender identity .

you say youre a proponent of it but you fail to even understand the basics ??

it's like you don't even read what i say.

me: i think we need to be liberated of the concepts of gender and sex, and oppression based on these.
you: radical feminism fundamentally is focused on female liberation FROM gender and sex based oppression. not liberation of a particular gender identity .

like????????????

its like we're speaking a different language. the word terf doesnt even make sense. radical feminism is male-exclusive not trans-exclusive and it always will be. if its isnt, then its not radical feminism

why am i even bothering? i used to be just like you and i never listened to people like me either, i shut my ears and went blablablabla until the truth hit me in the goddamn face.

have fun perpetuating your valid world

Basil
Youtube Star

Basil wrote:

scoff wrote:
A woman is a person born with a vagina, and that's it. It's not a personality, it's not an emotion, it's not a hobby - it's a biological fact. Denying that is way more harmful than refusing to validate three billion genders. In order to reach equality, we need to abolish gender roles, not enforce them by saying people that don't feel comfortable with being women due to society aren't women.

Sex is like skin color - it's strictly bilogical and unfortunately can come with major disadvantages.

except....it's not as simple as a biological fact. there are many variations on what a woman can be (if we are discussing the biology of the term 'female') that can occur in her chromosomes, her sexual presentation, and her general presentation.

nobody is trying to validate multiple genders. we are literally only talking about the identity of a woman.

also, i'm glad you brought up race. because race is another social construct--what we perceive is just genetic variation, but we have assigned labels and '''value''' to certain skin colours. racial discrimination is not based in science, just like sexism isn't based in science.

Ad0xa
World Famous

ad0xa wrote:

Rosa wrote:

scoff wrote:
I'm not denying trans people exist, tho, but a trans woman will always be a trans woman.

You kinda just did, though.

They are still real women, just trans women. Like... a women that can't lay eggs but identify with being woman is still one...
But she will always be a infertile woman.
It's just like... a defining word in the definition. Sometimes they are not needed. And sometimes they are. If we strip all the other definitions from it, they are all just "women".

It doesn't make it any less valuable. Even though I get why people would think so. And dysphoria in itself is probably not helping. Ofc you wanna hear you are just "a woman" just as that infertile woman don't wanna be infertile. But you know... in the end.. we need to comfort them with being just as valuable. Not denying the fact.

Account deleted

wrote:

Luna wrote:

Vortex wrote:

Luna wrote:
You know, my mom has this really weird habit. She loves watching those Real House Wives shows. She does not enjoy the shows- she hates all the people on them and every thing they do. She only watches them so she can be angry at/over them.

That is literally what like 90% of you "discussing" in this thread are doing. None of you came in here to actually have a civil debate or even answer the damn question, y'all just came in here to be angry at one another because y'all know damn well none of you ever intended on letting your opinions change.

It's really funny honestly.

Anyway, a woman biologically is someone born with female genitals that is now an adult. A woman socially is someone who, even if not born with female genitals, identifies as female. That's how I define it, but ultimately it's whatever and I'm fairly indifferent.

YES, this is how im interpereting this too, and I think that's why I'm so confused by this.
Also, several people have defined the word how they see it, and yet people are complaining about how people havent answered the question.

I guess I haven't noticed the answers because of all the angry brick walls yelling at each other in this thread

I know, they're there but hard to find because people are overlooking it, maybe only reading what their "opponent" is writing
But yeah, I totally agree with you

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World Famous

Rosa wrote:

scoff wrote:
Basically at the end of the day, if we ever finally reach equality, gender or sex won't fucking matter at all.

But gender is IMPORTANT for people! It's VERY important for me!! For me, gender is about expression, a point of view,,,, or like,,,, an aura(idk how to explain ehhe)

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World Famous

Claire wrote:

Basil wrote:

scoff wrote:
A woman is a person born with a vagina, and that's it. It's not a personality, it's not an emotion, it's not a hobby - it's a biological fact. Denying that is way more harmful than refusing to validate three billion genders. In order to reach equality, we need to abolish gender roles, not enforce them by saying people that don't feel comfortable with being women due to society aren't women.

Sex is like skin color - it's strictly bilogical and unfortunately can come with major disadvantages.

except....it's not as simple as a biological fact. there are many variations on what a woman can be (if we are discussing the biology of the term 'female') that can occur in her chromosomes, her sexual presentation, and her general presentation.

nobody is trying to validate multiple genders. we are literally only talking about the identity of a woman.

also, i'm glad you brought up race. because race is another social construct--what we perceive is just genetic variation, but we have assigned labels and '''value''' to certain skin colours. racial discrimination is not based in science, just like sexism isn't based in science.

sexism is not based in science, but the two sexes has distinct and different brains?

Private
World Famous

Yoko wrote:

Rosa wrote:

scoff wrote:
Basically at the end of the day, if we ever finally reach equality, gender or sex won't fucking matter at all.

But gender is IMPORTANT for people! It's VERY important for me!! For me, gender is about expression, a point of view,,,, or like,,,, an aura(idk how to explain ehhe)

synonym: personality

Private
National Star

scoff wrote:

Claire wrote:

scoff wrote:
Basically at the end of the day, if we ever finally reach equality, gender or sex won't fucking matter at all.

sex will still matter. i am a heterosexual woman. i will only sleep with males. sex matters. sex will always matter because people will always have a sexual orientation of who they want to fuck.

Yeah, definitely. I meant regarding other stuff such as how society views you and what's expected of you and stuff. That shit is determined by sex, or, you know, what sex people think you are. Nobody actually cares about someone's identity - a non binary person born with a penis is less oppressed than a cis-woman, because society views the non-binary person as a man.

Basil
Youtube Star

Basil wrote:

Yoko wrote:

Basil wrote:

Yoko wrote:
radical feminism fundamentally is focused on female liberation FROM gender and sex based oppression. not liberation of a particular gender identity .

you say youre a proponent of it but you fail to even understand the basics ??

it's like you don't even read what i say.

me: i think we need to be liberated of the concepts of gender and sex, and oppression based on these.
you: radical feminism fundamentally is focused on female liberation FROM gender and sex based oppression. not liberation of a particular gender identity .

like????????????

its like we're speaking a different language. the word terf doesnt even make sense. radical feminism is male-exclusive not trans-exclusive and it always will be. if its isnt, then its not radical feminism

why am i even bothering? i used to be just like you and i never listened to people like me either, i shut my ears and went blablablabla until the truth hit me in the goddamn face.

have fun perpetuating your valid world

except terfs exist. and are very vocal about how much they hate trans women. and go out of their ways to harass them online. i can tell you they exist and that they do this, because i've literally been harassed by terfs.

like this is why i've been dismissive of you. because when i give responses you do exactly what you're claiming that i do. you don't read or respond to my replies.

i talk and engage with anybody that would like to. i'm writing these replies because i care deeply about this topic. but i'm sorry, you are never going to be able to convince me that trans women are not women, and that we do not face similar struggles to cisgender women. it's just not true.

Private
National Star

scoff wrote:

ad0xa wrote:

Rosa wrote:

scoff wrote:
I'm not denying trans people exist, tho, but a trans woman will always be a trans woman.

You kinda just did, though.

They are still real women, just trans women. Like... a women that can't lay eggs but identify with being woman is still one...
But she will always be a infertile woman.
It's just like... a defining word in the definition. Sometimes they are not needed. And sometimes they are. If we strip all the other definitions from it, they are all just "women".

It doesn't make it any less valuable. Even though I get why people would think so. And dysphoria in itself is probably not helping. Ofc you wanna hear you are just "a woman" just as that infertile woman don't wanna be infertile. But you know... in the end.. we need to comfort them with being just as valuable. Not denying the fact.

That's what I meant.

Pavlov
International Star

Pavlov wrote:

Rosa wrote:

scoff wrote:
Basically at the end of the day, if we ever finally reach equality, gender or sex won't fucking matter at all.

But gender is IMPORTANT for people! It's VERY important for me!! For me, gender is about expression, a point of view,,,, or like,,,, an aura(idk how to explain ehhe)

it's not

sorry

Private
National Star

scoff wrote:

Rosa wrote:

scoff wrote:
Basically at the end of the day, if we ever finally reach equality, gender or sex won't fucking matter at all.

But gender is IMPORTANT for people! It's VERY important for me!! For me, gender is about expression, a point of view,,,, or like,,,, an aura(idk how to explain ehhe)

I guess we have different views on genders, then? For me, gender means fuck-all. I wish there were no genders, or at least no gender roles and that stuff, you know? I don't feel comfortable being a woman with all of society's expectations and that. I don't want to be a woman if being a woman means being a person who feels comfortable with the expectations that being a woman comes with. Sorry if I'm being unclear.

Basil
Youtube Star

Basil wrote:
thank you so much you're an angel! going through all of this is a bit frustrating, but i just hope that posting and sharing will at least change the mind of a person or two. i was reading your posts before i came and they were very well written, i appreciate you standing up for girls like me. <3

there are only so many posts i can reply to at a time. if you would like to have an in depth exchange of ideas, please feel free to post your opinions and we can go from there. each post i have made in this thread has been descriptive of my stance; if you would rather take one post and attempt to refute it then by all means. it is not my intention to ignore anybody, there are just several messages appearing for every one reply that i post.