5 am philosophical debate - Forum

Chat0yant
World Famous

Chat0yant wrote:
I just I want to talk n debate about some stuff

is anyone even awake rn its fine idc

ANYWAY

i've been watching videos about piracy. my soul hurts. it's 5am. i am using no capitalization

*piracy is illegal, i am not promoting illegal stuff!!*
but should it be? that's my question...

OK complete sentences time. I personally don't really pirate stuff. (ok maybe a little music here n there but it's complicated). Like books, games, etc. But my friends (hypothetically) lets say do sometimes. And i just... like i'm so conflicted on the whole thing i don't really judge them for it. But, to me, personally doing it or using stuff i know is completely pirated just feels wrong in my heart. (Yes, that sounds tacky as frick, idk how else to say it but it just does).

But then i hear about things like:
🟣Sites taking away/resetting content already paid for/no real digital ownership
🟣People in trouble for personally use downloading a book but AI corporations can download a whole LIBRARY of pirated books for training to then profit off of and its ok
🟣Lost media growing every day and no other way to access it (except maybe a ridiculously exorbitant/rare way like buying an old video game cartridge for $1000 or smth)
🟣So much paywall content that shouldn't be i think (like science/research papers)
🟣Completely hypocritical law enforcement (way comments have said so to speak, fines stop the poor and are business expense to rich)
🟣How much is stolen from us (data, art for ai training, etc.)
🟣How harsh laws come down on people who resist these laws that are enforced with such major amounts of bias (and perhaps ignore much more major crimes instead...)

...and i'm just like.... why... why can't the world just like.... not suck?
Like how can this just keep going like this? (I know greed, power, etc.)

And why am i sticking to my values when i'm the only one punished for it? I'm not going to change because of my deeply held beliefs and i'm a rule follower but... It just feels so unfair...

Idk what exactly to say at this point. What are your thoughts, feelings, etc.?

Private
Youtube Star

devilcake wrote:
What’s the point of the thread if you’re not going to change your deeply held believes /nbr /gen

anyways piracy is morally ethical and correct, it’s up to you were your limit goes, I personally wouldn’t pirate from ex. Patreon and small creators unless they are deliberately making their content only available through some unethical means (ex Amazon) or if it’s region locked. If you want to support a creator there are usually better way to do it than the direct purchasing of the media (merch, patreon, donations, etc)

in the best world we wouldn’t have to pirate, but in shitfuck corrupt capitalism it is a pretty direct way to protest big corporations. So if you consider urself anti capitalist you can reflect on that.

ultimatelt you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to, just don’t blame your friends for doing it or discourage them to do it (unless they do it unsafely) because they aren’t rly doing anything wrong.

all is /neu

i can probably add more to this later cos ive been a vid piracy enjoyer (for legal purposes I have never actually done it though 😇) since i was like 10, but im at uni rn

Concertsrule
National Star

concertsrule wrote:
i personally think that piracy isnt morally unethical in most cases, i dont really care to police people on what is and isnt "acceptable" by my own personal standards since its none of my business.

the only time i would hypothetically not pirate anything would be from small creators, for instance small bands who only have music for sale/download on bandcamp (just wait for a free friday or whatever its called if ur that desperate) and indie video games. i also have the relative luxury of living in walking distance from a library so i generally wouldnt pirate books for the most part.

if what your friends are doing makes you feel conflicted and uncomfortable maybe ask them not to bring it up?

Private
Princess of Pop

whydoiexist wrote:
im not following how are you being punished for not pirating? whether you pirate or not is a personal choice and youre not really losing anything by not doing it

the only time it would be justified to be uncomfortable with your friends pirating is when its from small creators that would lose money (indie games, publishers etc) but when it comes to big corporations who are often using unethical business models to begin with who cares

Chat0yant
World Famous

Chat0yant wrote:

devilcake wrote:
What’s the point of the thread if you’re not going to change your deeply held believes /nbr /gen

anyways piracy is morally ethical and correct, it’s up to you were your limit goes, I personally wouldn’t pirate from ex. Patreon and small creators unless they are deliberately making their content only available through some unethical means (ex Amazon) or if it’s region locked. If you want to support a creator there are usually better way to do it than the direct purchasing of the media (merch, patreon, donations, etc)

in the best world we wouldn’t have to pirate, but in shitfuck corrupt capitalism it is a pretty direct way to protest big corporations. So if you consider urself anti capitalist you can reflect on that.

ultimatelt you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to, just don’t blame your friends for doing it or discourage them to do it (unless they do it unsafely) because they aren’t rly doing anything wrong.

all is /neu

i can probably add more to this later cos ive been a vid piracy enjoyer (for legal purposes I have never actually done it though 😇) since i was like 10, but im at uni rn

sorry I meant that i am not going to compromise my beliefs just because "everyone is doing it" i.e. i'm not going to start pirating just because some random youtube comments say "oh it's fine i do it" not that i made this thread not wanting to hear others opinions and reasoning and, potentially, changing my beliefs if i find others make good points.

also... i literally said i'm not judging my friends i just don't personally want to do it and it sounds like i could have worded it better? because the paragraph before all is /neu you seem to think i'm saying the opposite? or at least it feels very angry to me and i'm not sure what i said that was disagreeing with that? maybe i'm just socially inept, nvmd

also i'm not sure if it can be considered "correct" if it's literally illegal? I mean, i'm half saying and half asking, since this is a discussion thread and i've said i'm kinda on the fence...

also maybe internet-ally inept so um... what is /neu... and maybe /nbr and /gen...? i see people use these /*insert words* and never learned what they were... is it like how you'd say #boomer or r/eyebleach kind of thing?

Chat0yant
World Famous

Chat0yant wrote:

whydoiexist wrote:
im not following how are you being punished for not pirating? whether you pirate or not is a personal choice and youre not really losing anything by not doing it

the only time it would be justified to be uncomfortable with your friends pirating is when its from small creators that would lose money (indie games, publishers etc) but when it comes to big corporations who are often using unethical business models to begin with who cares

1st paragraph- i mean in the sense that a. i lose out on the content (i.e. stuff i wouldn't buy/couldn't afford) and b. by being morally unsettled by this whole situation whereas those on both sides (pirates and unjust ethical businesses) are perfectly happy with what they're doing and not conflicted at all. not as in i'm being persecuted or smth

2nd-... but that is your opinion. I made this thread to explore and discuss people's opinions so it's fine to share that, but you say that like it's an undeniable fact that pirating is ok unless from small creators. I think people have differing opinions on the topic which is why i wanted to see what other people on here though, which means it isn't an undeniable fact. So i guess, why do you consider that (at least, that's how i take your wording) as an undeniable fact?

Chat0yant
World Famous

Chat0yant wrote:

concertsrule wrote:
i personally think that piracy isnt morally unethical in most cases, i dont really care to police people on what is and isnt "acceptable" by my own personal standards since its none of my business.

the only time i would hypothetically not pirate anything would be from small creators, for instance small bands who only have music for sale/download on bandcamp (just wait for a free friday or whatever its called if ur that desperate) and indie video games. i also have the relative luxury of living in walking distance from a library so i generally wouldnt pirate books for the most part.

if what your friends are doing makes you feel conflicted and uncomfortable maybe ask them not to bring it up?

for the last point, there has been a time or two where friends were playing pirated games and I was just like "i'll stay in call and chat but i'mma go do something else on my end" but... they just seemed very guilt tripped by that so... also i don't necessarily want to just ignore the issue. Like, it's easy to just not deal with it but i guess i want to analyze the issue more to come to a more complete conclusion so i can define my boundaries and reasons for those boundaries better.

I guess for the first point then, why do you consider it acceptable?

Private
Youtube Star

devilcake wrote:

Chat0yant wrote:

devilcake wrote:
What’s the point of the thread if you’re not going to change your deeply held believes /nbr /gen

anyways piracy is morally ethical and correct, it’s up to you were your limit goes, I personally wouldn’t pirate from ex. Patreon and small creators unless they are deliberately making their content only available through some unethical means (ex Amazon) or if it’s region locked. If you want to support a creator there are usually better way to do it than the direct purchasing of the media (merch, patreon, donations, etc)

in the best world we wouldn’t have to pirate, but in shitfuck corrupt capitalism it is a pretty direct way to protest big corporations. So if you consider urself anti capitalist you can reflect on that.

ultimatelt you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to, just don’t blame your friends for doing it or discourage them to do it (unless they do it unsafely) because they aren’t rly doing anything wrong.

all is /neu

i can probably add more to this later cos ive been a vid piracy enjoyer (for legal purposes I have never actually done it though 😇) since i was like 10, but im at uni rn

sorry I meant that i am not going to compromise my beliefs just because "everyone is doing it" i.e. i'm not going to start pirating just because some random youtube comments say "oh it's fine i do it" not that i made this thread not wanting to hear others opinions and reasoning and, potentially, changing my beliefs if i find others make good points.

also... i literally said i'm not judging my friends i just don't personally want to do it and it sounds like i could have worded it better? because the paragraph before all is /neu you seem to think i'm saying the opposite? or at least it feels very angry to me and i'm not sure what i said that was disagreeing with that? maybe i'm just socially inept, nvmd

also i'm not sure if it can be considered "correct" if it's literally illegal? I mean, i'm half saying and half asking, since this is a discussion thread and i've said i'm kinda on the fence...

also maybe internet-ally inept so um... what is /neu... and maybe /nbr and /gen...? i see people use these /*insert words* and never learned what they were... is it like how you'd say #boomer or r/eyebleach kind of thing?

They are tonetags because people on here always read me as agressive when that’s just how I speak but ig that doesn’t work either e_e if you google tone tags list you will get a list for common ones

anyways I do think even if you don’t intend to be, it does read as judgemental, at least if I were your friend I would feel like you were being judgemental (especially with the addition to weedees post), and would probably maybe distance myself from you because I don’t vibe with people who aren’t as anti capitalist as me…. But that’s just me n we aren’t friends so it’s w/e

the correct is as in morally/ethically correct. Things that are legal can be wrong, and things that are illegal can be right. And also just like a silly turn of phrase for asserting something is good to me so…

Honestly, it feels like you are able to reason why it’s okay yourself (all the reasons you listed), you just don’t want to do it yourself because, I don’t see you stating a reason for it other than your own value. Which again if you don’t want to do it don’t do it. And maybe examine why your values oppose it?

(I am not angry I am being neutral im just explaining my thoughts and im writing this in place of tone tags)

Private
National Star

Dew wrote:
I LOVE TO PIRATE BABY WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Billionaire corporate types have literally stripped society of it's ability to own anything, everything is rented to us, we don't own things anymore because we exist to have money siphoned out of us for every measly thing. We stream stream stream, and nothing is ours.

Pirating has nuance. It's either good or bad imo depending on how or why it's done. I pirate stuff from millionaire / billionaire companies any day of the week, but I don't pirate books or anything that is created indie.

Private
Youtube Star

devilcake wrote:
One thing I will say in favour of the payealling (gasp I know this coming from me) is scientific articles are somewhat protected by the paywalled because It allows them to allocate funds to peer reviews and making sure only well made research is published

again in the most ideal world this would not be an issue. And im still in favour of pirating them if you are a private person who isn’t going to use it for quoting n research and just want to read to inform yourself. But scientific journal integrity is in a super scary situation rn bc of AI and publication slop so for me subscribing to journals is something I would happily fo if I wasn’t poor as shit

Elisia
Youtube Star

elisia wrote:
Imo its personal discretion.

I firmly believe that entertainment should not be behind a paywall. Everybody should be able to afford to watch good content. And when the walls are getting so steep because every platform is adding an extra brick, sometimes, the next best option is to grab your telescope.So you can also watch the same entertainment?

Elisia
Youtube Star

elisia wrote:

devilcake wrote:
One thing I will say in favour of the payealling (gasp I know this coming from me) is scientific articles are somewhat protected by the paywalled because It allows them to allocate funds to peer reviews and making sure only well made research is published

A lot of these articles authors (not all obviously) will send you the article if you email them and ask? A lot of those sites dont give commission to the authors, theyre paid a flat rate then the host platform pockets the profit

(My professor had a paper that he wrote be published by a news company, and he was not thrilled with how it worked, of course thats just one example)

Private
National Star

Dew wrote:

elisia wrote:
Imo its personal discretion.

I firmly believe that entertainment should not be behind a paywall. Everybody should be able to afford to watch good content. And when the walls are getting so steep because every platform is adding an extra brick, sometimes, the next best option is to grab your telescope.So you can also watch the same entertainment?

wait real I forgot about that... how the goalpost literally keeps moving bc wdym there are people paying for an amazon prime SUBSCRIPTION and are still getting ads????? ur paying and still being shown ads??? and the money is going to real life dr. doofenshmirtz?? crazy

oh also pirating stuff prevents the money we spend buying from certain companies from going to a certain place to commit certain war crimes + weapons manufacturing lol so there's that too. ya those are my thoughts

Private
Living Legend

Maxwell wrote:
I keep reading Sam philosophical debate Im like what did I do!

Elisia
Youtube Star

elisia wrote:

Maxwell wrote:
I keep reading Sam philosophical debate Im like what did I do!

I also thought sam was getting philosophical

Private
Youtube Star

devilcake wrote:

elisia wrote:

devilcake wrote:
One thing I will say in favour of the payealling (gasp I know this coming from me) is scientific articles are somewhat protected by the paywalled because It allows them to allocate funds to peer reviews and making sure only well made research is published

A lot of these articles authors (not all obviously) will send you the article if you email them and ask? A lot of those sites dont give commission to the authors, theyre paid a flat rate then the host platform pockets the profit

(My professor had a paper that he wrote be published by a news company, and he was not thrilled with how it worked, of course thats just one example)

Yes that’s a good way as well!

I just wanted to make a case that the payealling itself in that case isn’t inherently something that is payealled without reason, not that the paywall necessarily financial benefits the creator of the material
/neu