How to help antisocial kids - Forum

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wrote:

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

Junia wrote:

Oh, so there is some magical power that affects the way the boys are going to react based on one term that is even perfectly valid. Do you even know they said to the boys "Oh you are antisocial", I am pretty sure it is an term used in the afterhand to explain what kind of kids we have to deal with.

there was an experiment where a group of boys and a group of girls where locked inside this house, with no parental control. the boys ripped it apart and fought constantly, so they had to cut it short. the girls made aliances, delegated chores, cleaned and took care of each other. it shows a very clear picture of what the problem actually is - socialisation of girls and boys.
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besides these antisocial boys, are typically boys who has underlying issues, mental instability, abuse at home, delevopment disorders etc. then sticking them in fancy schools and forcing them to be around their peers, which they significally distrust, isn't gonna make them magically social. it's only gonna aggreviate the problem further and make them both more a target and more prone to at-risk behaviour, usually with violence towards others.

then to the topic of the less antisocial kids becoming more aggressive, is simple the same as before aggreviation - if they can't get the social stimuli they need, they'll act out.

First, I am pretty sure this study took the "having bad at home"-factor into consideration. Remember, they followed these kids closely, I am pretty sure they knew how they had it at home. Overall, it is just a lie that most kids that act out aggressively does have it bad at home. Majority doesn't. Sure, there are some, but in many cases, they do not. They simply have a more predatory personality partly based on genetics. I also saw a video ones (again, from the legitimate psychologist Jordan Peterson) that doeíng mean things actually is something addicitve for the brain. That means that you start to get doses of dopamine, and this will expand the vulnerability for making mean things again and again, and it becomes a bad circle.

I am trying to show an english article from the swedish scientist Amir Sariaslan, but can only find swedish ones. But he basically states that he finds that criminal behaviour is partly based on genetics, around 50% cause.

i'm not saying all of them had it hard at home, i'm saying that some anti-social kids show behaviour consistent w such theory.
and it being genetic predisposed is such a cop-out. it's socialisation that w/o a doubt does the most. "predatory personality" sounds idiotic.

take it from someone who was an extremely antisocial kid that reacted violently to everyone and everything around her, a lot of it stems from trauma. but again, antisocial boys typically have a "misfits-misunderstood" attitude, that paints their worldview black n white. socialisation & alienation are key components to why so many antisocial kids have academic troubles, health issues, drug problems and criminal activity.

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ouch wrote:

disintegration wrote:

Junia wrote:

ouch wrote:
I don't understand what ur trying to say

Many support the idea of actually helping youths that are about to go into trouble in life, like going into criminality. So they made a very large study on this, to basically help these youths in many ways. The result showed that it didn't help. It got worse for them.

well seperation is not good at all, inclusion works better and is less cruel

Yeah that too, such a weird way to do it

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Limbs wrote:
pls chill

Junia
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Junia wrote:

ouch wrote:

Junia wrote:

ouch wrote:
I don't understand what ur trying to say

Many support the idea of actually helping youths that are about to go into trouble in life, like going into criminality. So they made a very large study on this, to basically help these youths in many ways. The result showed that it didn't help. It got worse for them.

But wasn't it cus they were grouped together
I could imagine it would help to lower the % of antisocial children if they are monitored from birth, however when u get like 10 I would say its pretty pointless to try to stop it if its already happened, if we are talking antisocial personality disorder

Yes, that is possible. Maybe it is "too late" when you're like 10 years old because your personality is already partly formed.
And yes, as you say, because they were grouped together. That is one of the main reasons they think it didn't work.

Junia
Youtube star

Junia wrote:

disintegration wrote:

Junia wrote:

ouch wrote:
I don't understand what ur trying to say

Many support the idea of actually helping youths that are about to go into trouble in life, like going into criminality. So they made a very large study on this, to basically help these youths in many ways. The result showed that it didn't help. It got worse for them.

well seperation is not good at all, inclusion works better and is less cruel

What do you mean?

Junia
Youtube star

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

there was an experiment where a group of boys and a group of girls where locked inside this house, with no parental control. the boys ripped it apart and fought constantly, so they had to cut it short. the girls made aliances, delegated chores, cleaned and took care of each other. it shows a very clear picture of what the problem actually is - socialisation of girls and boys.
-
besides these antisocial boys, are typically boys who has underlying issues, mental instability, abuse at home, delevopment disorders etc. then sticking them in fancy schools and forcing them to be around their peers, which they significally distrust, isn't gonna make them magically social. it's only gonna aggreviate the problem further and make them both more a target and more prone to at-risk behaviour, usually with violence towards others.

then to the topic of the less antisocial kids becoming more aggressive, is simple the same as before aggreviation - if they can't get the social stimuli they need, they'll act out.

First, I am pretty sure this study took the "having bad at home"-factor into consideration. Remember, they followed these kids closely, I am pretty sure they knew how they had it at home. Overall, it is just a lie that most kids that act out aggressively does have it bad at home. Majority doesn't. Sure, there are some, but in many cases, they do not. They simply have a more predatory personality partly based on genetics. I also saw a video ones (again, from the legitimate psychologist Jordan Peterson) that doeíng mean things actually is something addicitve for the brain. That means that you start to get doses of dopamine, and this will expand the vulnerability for making mean things again and again, and it becomes a bad circle.

I am trying to show an english article from the swedish scientist Amir Sariaslan, but can only find swedish ones. But he basically states that he finds that criminal behaviour is partly based on genetics, around 50% cause.

i'm not saying all of them had it hard at home, i'm saying that some anti-social kids show behaviour consistent w such theory.
and it being genetic predisposed is such a cop-out. it's socialisation that w/o a doubt does the most. "predatory personality" sounds idiotic.

take it from someone who was an extremely antisocial kid that reacted violently to everyone and everything around her, a lot of it stems from trauma. but again, antisocial boys typically have a "misfits-misunderstood" attitude, that paints their worldview black n white. socialisation & alienation are key components to why so many antisocial kids have academic troubles, health issues, drug problems and criminal activity.

Criminal activity and drug problems stems from the same thing - going in gangs. And from there we come to the attachment theory. When you attach to your peers because you are by heart an outgoing person, you start to behave and think like your peers, you start to have the same values as your peers and even to stay on the same side as your peers in conflicts. That is an instinct built in all of us, the only difference is that we attach to different things and different sorts of people. So they basically attach to other aggressive kids aswell, because they are likeminded from start, but by continuing that relationship will make them even more similar.
Why do they often have drug problems? The reason is very simple - because they are more risktaking. Why do they engage more in criminal activity? Because they are more disagreeable.

Is disagreeableness only a bad thing? No it is not. It gives you lots of confidence and chances are higher that you will become a winner in the hiearachy (even if youre a blunt winner). That's enough for making some want to become disagreeable.
You can say that agreeableness is a good thing (being nice) but it actually higher your chance of becoming anxious, becoming depressed, and so on.

Account deleted

wrote:

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

Junia wrote:
First, I am pretty sure this study took the "having bad at home"-factor into consideration. Remember, they followed these kids closely, I am pretty sure they knew how they had it at home. Overall, it is just a lie that most kids that act out aggressively does have it bad at home. Majority doesn't. Sure, there are some, but in many cases, they do not. They simply have a more predatory personality partly based on genetics. I also saw a video ones (again, from the legitimate psychologist Jordan Peterson) that doeíng mean things actually is something addicitve for the brain. That means that you start to get doses of dopamine, and this will expand the vulnerability for making mean things again and again, and it becomes a bad circle.

I am trying to show an english article from the swedish scientist Amir Sariaslan, but can only find swedish ones. But he basically states that he finds that criminal behaviour is partly based on genetics, around 50% cause.

i'm not saying all of them had it hard at home, i'm saying that some anti-social kids show behaviour consistent w such theory.
and it being genetic predisposed is such a cop-out. it's socialisation that w/o a doubt does the most. "predatory personality" sounds idiotic.

take it from someone who was an extremely antisocial kid that reacted violently to everyone and everything around her, a lot of it stems from trauma. but again, antisocial boys typically have a "misfits-misunderstood" attitude, that paints their worldview black n white. socialisation & alienation are key components to why so many antisocial kids have academic troubles, health issues, drug problems and criminal activity.

Criminal activity and drug problems stems from the same thing - going in gangs. And from there we come to the attachment theory. When you attach to your peers because you are by heart an outgoing person, you start to behave and think like your peers, you start to have the same values as your peers and even to stay on the same side as your peers in conflicts. That is an instinct built in all of us, the only difference is that we attach to different things and different sorts of people. So they basically attach to other aggressive kids aswell, because they are likeminded from start, but by continuing that relationship will make them even more similar.
Why do they often have drug problems? The reason is very simple - because they are more risktaking. Why do they engage more in criminal activity? Because they are more disagreeable.

Is disagreeableness only a bad thing? No it is not. It gives you lots of confidence and chances are higher that you will become a winner in the hiearachy (even if youre a blunt winner). That's enough for making some want to become disagreeable.
You can say that agreeableness is a good thing (being nice) but it actually higher your chance of becoming anxious, becoming depressed, and so on.

what you're describing is socialisation and group dynamics. what i've been saying all this time.
also u can't blame everything on gangs - it's antisocial kids you're also talking abt, a lot of them are loners that feel judged and discarded by the world so they try to numb the pain or to cause the world pain.

Junia
Youtube star

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:
i'm not saying all of them had it hard at home, i'm saying that some anti-social kids show behaviour consistent w such theory.
and it being genetic predisposed is such a cop-out. it's socialisation that w/o a doubt does the most. "predatory personality" sounds idiotic.

take it from someone who was an extremely antisocial kid that reacted violently to everyone and everything around her, a lot of it stems from trauma. but again, antisocial boys typically have a "misfits-misunderstood" attitude, that paints their worldview black n white. socialisation & alienation are key components to why so many antisocial kids have academic troubles, health issues, drug problems and criminal activity.

Criminal activity and drug problems stems from the same thing - going in gangs. And from there we come to the attachment theory. When you attach to your peers because you are by heart an outgoing person, you start to behave and think like your peers, you start to have the same values as your peers and even to stay on the same side as your peers in conflicts. That is an instinct built in all of us, the only difference is that we attach to different things and different sorts of people. So they basically attach to other aggressive kids aswell, because they are likeminded from start, but by continuing that relationship will make them even more similar.
Why do they often have drug problems? The reason is very simple - because they are more risktaking. Why do they engage more in criminal activity? Because they are more disagreeable.

Is disagreeableness only a bad thing? No it is not. It gives you lots of confidence and chances are higher that you will become a winner in the hiearachy (even if youre a blunt winner). That's enough for making some want to become disagreeable.
You can say that agreeableness is a good thing (being nice) but it actually higher your chance of becoming anxious, becoming depressed, and so on.

what you're describing is socialisation and group dynamics. what i've been saying all this time.
also u can't blame everything on gangs - it's antisocial kids you're also talking abt, a lot of them are loners that feel judged and discarded by the world so they try to numb the pain or to cause the world pain.

Well, then I think we talk about different things when we say antisocial. Maybe you're referring to asocial?
Otherwise, if not, I borrowed the word from this context, however, the word I was seeking is the english word for the sweidsh term utåtagerande which I couldn't find in english. Usually the kids that I refer to are the ones that make a lot of trouble in school, involve in criminality and so on. But sure, there are some loners too, but I am not referring to those right now.

I don't think we talk about the same kind of socialisation, because what you mention is house dynamics. What I mention is peer orientation, which are two different types of socialisation. If you want, I can send you a video about the alpha complex, which I base my belief on.

Account deleted

wrote:

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

Junia wrote:
Criminal activity and drug problems stems from the same thing - going in gangs. And from there we come to the attachment theory. When you attach to your peers because you are by heart an outgoing person, you start to behave and think like your peers, you start to have the same values as your peers and even to stay on the same side as your peers in conflicts. That is an instinct built in all of us, the only difference is that we attach to different things and different sorts of people. So they basically attach to other aggressive kids aswell, because they are likeminded from start, but by continuing that relationship will make them even more similar.
Why do they often have drug problems? The reason is very simple - because they are more risktaking. Why do they engage more in criminal activity? Because they are more disagreeable.

Is disagreeableness only a bad thing? No it is not. It gives you lots of confidence and chances are higher that you will become a winner in the hiearachy (even if youre a blunt winner). That's enough for making some want to become disagreeable.
You can say that agreeableness is a good thing (being nice) but it actually higher your chance of becoming anxious, becoming depressed, and so on.

what you're describing is socialisation and group dynamics. what i've been saying all this time.
also u can't blame everything on gangs - it's antisocial kids you're also talking abt, a lot of them are loners that feel judged and discarded by the world so they try to numb the pain or to cause the world pain.

Well, then I think we talk about different things when we say antisocial. Maybe you're referring to asocial?
Otherwise, if not, I borrowed the word from this context, however, the word I was seeking is the english word for the sweidsh term utåtagerande which I couldn't find in english. Usually the kids that I refer to are the ones that make a lot of trouble in school, involve in criminality and so on. But sure, there are some loners too, but I am not referring to those right now.

I don't think we talk about the same kind of socialisation, because what you mention is house dynamics. What I mention is peer orientation, which are two different types of socialisation. If you want, I can send you a video about the alpha complex, which I base my belief on.

no thanks
the concepts of alpha and that shit is too dumb that i want to waste my time w it.
and as u say, that's ur belief. and well i've mine.

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ᴵ ᵈᵒⁿ'ᵗ ʰᵃᵛᵉ ᵍᵒᵒᵈ ᵉⁿᵒᵘᵍʰ ᵉʸᵉˢᶦᵍʰᵗ ᶠᵒʳ ᵗʰᶦˢ

Junia
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Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:
what you're describing is socialisation and group dynamics. what i've been saying all this time.
also u can't blame everything on gangs - it's antisocial kids you're also talking abt, a lot of them are loners that feel judged and discarded by the world so they try to numb the pain or to cause the world pain.

Well, then I think we talk about different things when we say antisocial. Maybe you're referring to asocial?
Otherwise, if not, I borrowed the word from this context, however, the word I was seeking is the english word for the sweidsh term utåtagerande which I couldn't find in english. Usually the kids that I refer to are the ones that make a lot of trouble in school, involve in criminality and so on. But sure, there are some loners too, but I am not referring to those right now.

I don't think we talk about the same kind of socialisation, because what you mention is house dynamics. What I mention is peer orientation, which are two different types of socialisation. If you want, I can send you a video about the alpha complex, which I base my belief on.

no thanks
the concepts of alpha and that shit is too dumb that i want to waste my time w it.
and as u say, that's ur belief. and well i've mine.

You seem like an alpha to me.

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ouch wrote:

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

Junia wrote:
Well, then I think we talk about different things when we say antisocial. Maybe you're referring to asocial?
Otherwise, if not, I borrowed the word from this context, however, the word I was seeking is the english word for the sweidsh term utåtagerande which I couldn't find in english. Usually the kids that I refer to are the ones that make a lot of trouble in school, involve in criminality and so on. But sure, there are some loners too, but I am not referring to those right now.

I don't think we talk about the same kind of socialisation, because what you mention is house dynamics. What I mention is peer orientation, which are two different types of socialisation. If you want, I can send you a video about the alpha complex, which I base my belief on.

no thanks
the concepts of alpha and that shit is too dumb that i want to waste my time w it.
and as u say, that's ur belief. and well i've mine.

You seem like an alpha to me.

The concept abt alpha and beta ppl is utter bullshit, its based on wolves but there is no such thing as alphas in wolf packs, its now just a word for toxic masculinity honestly

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Rouya wrote:

Junia wrote:

disintegration wrote:
just raise kids in a environment where they are loved and respected it's not that hard

That is the point I am trying to make, that they made a very whole hearted study on this, yet the results showed something different.

if they take teenage kids who have been raised in an anti-social environment, placing them in a group of non-anti-social kids wont magically repair them

Junia
Youtube star

Junia wrote:

ouch wrote:

Junia wrote:

acidreflux wrote:
no thanks
the concepts of alpha and that shit is too dumb that i want to waste my time w it.
and as u say, that's ur belief. and well i've mine.

You seem like an alpha to me.

The concept abt alpha and beta ppl is utter bullshit, its based on wolves but there is no such thing as alphas in wolf packs, its now just a word for toxic masculinity honestly

Well, this man adresses the issue in a different way. It isn't shown exactly in this video (I have seen many videos from him) but in other videos he talks about the way alpha and beta originally is constructed in mammals. Unlike what most people think, it is not to compete against each other, but actually to help each other so the group becomes strong. The alpha is for taking charge, while the beta is the one being taken charge of. Usually people that are more prone to beta attributes are not only weaker, but they are actually cuter because that makes the alpha want to being in charge of them and want to help them. By instinct they have vulnerable features that makes you want to take care of them, like babies. The problem we are facing in this society however is that most alphas do not express themselves in their natural placement, so they become hyperaggressive and mean instead of the helper of a group. He describes it as they need softened hearts.

Junia
Youtube star

Junia wrote:

Rouya wrote:

Junia wrote:

disintegration wrote:
just raise kids in a environment where they are loved and respected it's not that hard

That is the point I am trying to make, that they made a very whole hearted study on this, yet the results showed something different.

if they take teenage kids who have been raised in an anti-social environment, placing them in a group of non-anti-social kids wont magically repair them

I am not really sure this is what they actually did. You have to aknowledge the age from when they were picked up, It is a difference between being helped from age 5 and age 10. (Too bad, I don't know the age but I think they arrange i different ages)