kinda unpopular opinion......? - Forum

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
i don't like the idea of body positivity in general. i can't find the post but someone worded it very well

basically this movement of self-empowerment we've witnessed in the recent years seems very much like giving in to our insecurities but framing it as body positivity anyways so we feel less bad/judged about it.

we are still catering to society's pressure and standards, but instead of just saying that (wanting to fit in is not a bad thing, and not everything we do has to serve a movement) we frame it as 'empowerment', 'being emancipated'. it's not. cosmetic plastic surgery, like makeup, is still a business that is fueled by insecurities. you are not empowering yourself, even if you _think_ you are making that choice. but that's okay! let's normalize that

yea no i completely agree w that, like, the framing of compliance to beauty standards as an empowered choice rly obfuscates the way those ppl are still made to conform to oppressive beauty standards. but the way the original post sounds it just seems like they're saying "these types of people (with plastic surgery) shouldn't be allowed to speak on these issues" which feels kinda gatekeepy and idk im not on board w it

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

Kit wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
tattoos are not the same thing as plastic surgery to me. you're literally changing the shape of your face. tattoos are more like decorations, makeup but permanent. i feel we have created a harmful environment by framing empowerment as something as 'you can make your own choices so get that plastic surgery!' while not acknowledging that our very insecurities are influenced by social factors. someone made a rlly good post about this but i can't find it anymore...

but anyway my point isnt that plastic surgery is empowering or anything like that & i dont encourage it. i just think the sort of condescending attitude towards ppl with plastic surgery, and the will to exclude them from the "body positivity movement" (again ... Lol) is closeminded and puritanical. like it rly feels like it comes from a place of wanting to feel better than "those people who do those things" and completely discounts their experiences. i think its v possible that people with plastic surgery might even be uniquely qualified to contribute to discussions about body positivity bc of their particular perspective

yeah i get u. but i think OP is specifically referring to those influencers who are like 'love yourself as you are!' and then get nosejobs and chin tucks etc. (cough madison beer cough)

also i think it's diabolical for celebrities to advertise plastic surgeries. it's good to be honest about it, but plastic surgery should never be advertised or openly encouraged. it creates a very toxic environment like south korea

jklhjklfsdjdkls ghhhhhh yeah
but that opens a whole nOTHER can of worms about how influences who have plastic surgery, expensive aestheticians, photoshopped instagram adds, diet plans and personal trainers, etc. are marketing their aesthetics online as achievable to young girls who r out there getting shoddy lip fillers and chugging tummy tea bc of kylie jenner's unethical business practices

Private
Popstar

Koolaid wrote:

Kit wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
i don't like the idea of body positivity in general. i can't find the post but someone worded it very well

basically this movement of self-empowerment we've witnessed in the recent years seems very much like giving in to our insecurities but framing it as body positivity anyways so we feel less bad/judged about it.

we are still catering to society's pressure and standards, but instead of just saying that (wanting to fit in is not a bad thing, and not everything we do has to serve a movement) we frame it as 'empowerment', 'being emancipated'. it's not. cosmetic plastic surgery, like makeup, is still a business that is fueled by insecurities. you are not empowering yourself, even if you _think_ you are making that choice. but that's okay! let's normalize that

yea no i completely agree w that, like, the framing of compliance to beauty standards as an empowered choice rly obfuscates the way those ppl are still made to conform to oppressive beauty standards. but the way the original post sounds it just seems like they're saying "these types of people (with plastic surgery) shouldn't be allowed to speak on these issues" which feels kinda gatekeepy and idk im not on board w it

yeah i get that it comes over as that way but when i read this

"how can you talk about body positivity, about loving yourself, with all your flaws, if then you're going to change your whole body because you consider it flawed."

i just interpreted it as less gatekeep-ey and just like what i was saying before.

Account deleted

wrote:
body positivity is a sham
body neutrality is what it was supposed to be - like you can just exist w/o your body looking a certain way. it's a fucking meatbag.

and also saying oh your body is BEAUTIFUL and accept your FLAWS, like ..... why do i have flaws, why are they considered flaws? huhhhhh???
and plastic surgery is just another way men tell women they need to look a certain pornoified way.

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

Koolaid wrote:

Kit wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
i don't like the idea of body positivity in general. i can't find the post but someone worded it very well

basically this movement of self-empowerment we've witnessed in the recent years seems very much like giving in to our insecurities but framing it as body positivity anyways so we feel less bad/judged about it.

we are still catering to society's pressure and standards, but instead of just saying that (wanting to fit in is not a bad thing, and not everything we do has to serve a movement) we frame it as 'empowerment', 'being emancipated'. it's not. cosmetic plastic surgery, like makeup, is still a business that is fueled by insecurities. you are not empowering yourself, even if you _think_ you are making that choice. but that's okay! let's normalize that

yea no i completely agree w that, like, the framing of compliance to beauty standards as an empowered choice rly obfuscates the way those ppl are still made to conform to oppressive beauty standards. but the way the original post sounds it just seems like they're saying "these types of people (with plastic surgery) shouldn't be allowed to speak on these issues" which feels kinda gatekeepy and idk im not on board w it

yeah i get that it comes over as that way but when i read this

"how can you talk about body positivity, about loving yourself, with all your flaws, if then you're going to change your whole body because you consider it flawed."

i just interpreted it as less gatekeep-ey and just like what i was saying before.

yeah i definitely see that too

i just have a hard time w the idea that "loving yourself with all your flaws" and having plastic surgery are antithetical. u can love urself, and love and accept ur flaws, and still get liposuction. ig it just comes down to the fact that i know a few ppl in my life who have had plastic surgery for a variety of reasons, and i have never personally interpreted any of their positivity as somehow disingenuous or less valuable or real bc of it.

but yeah i can definitely see how especially w like. influencers omg ??? that it can come across as rly fake when they're using body positivity more as a branding thing than as an actual ideal bc it just makes u seem intellectually n morally bankrupt lmao

Duckgirl
Youtube Star

duckgirl wrote:

acidreflux wrote:
body positivity is a sham
body neutrality is what it was supposed to be - like you can just exist w/o your body looking a certain way. it's a fucking meatbag.

and also saying oh your body is BEAUTIFUL and accept your FLAWS, like ..... why do i have flaws, why are they considered flaws? huhhhhh???
and plastic surgery is just another way men tell women they need to look a certain pornoified way.

i agree completely
abt the flaws n what r flaws, I'd say it's everything that the ideal body type doesn't have (let's say acne or crooked nose)

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:
idk i just think that plastic surgery isnt just a thing that instagram influencers or wannabe influencers or 55 yr old housewives get u know ...

like its also for my aunt who got a boob job after 2 pregnancies left her tiddies in not too good shape

and for my family friend who was like 350 pounds, got liposuction & has maintained a healthy weight since

& for my sister who was 1.60cm with E cups and wanted to not walk around w giant tiddies every day of her life

& the idea that someone wld look at them and say "ur opinions on body positivity dont matter bc u made that choice" just doesnt vibe with me. its too black n white of a take

Account deleted

wrote:

duckgirl wrote:

acidreflux wrote:
body positivity is a sham
body neutrality is what it was supposed to be - like you can just exist w/o your body looking a certain way. it's a fucking meatbag.

and also saying oh your body is BEAUTIFUL and accept your FLAWS, like ..... why do i have flaws, why are they considered flaws? huhhhhh???
and plastic surgery is just another way men tell women they need to look a certain pornoified way.

i agree completely
abt the flaws n what r flaws, I'd say it's everything that the ideal body type doesn't have (let's say acne or crooked nose)

yeah and the fact that even implying they're "flaws" is done to make ppl feel ashamed of those features ... ugh

Private
Popstar

Koolaid wrote:

acidreflux wrote:
body positivity is a sham
body neutrality is what it was supposed to be - like you can just exist w/o your body looking a certain way. it's a fucking meatbag.

and also saying oh your body is BEAUTIFUL and accept your FLAWS, like ..... why do i have flaws, why are they considered flaws? huhhhhh???
and plastic surgery is just another way men tell women they need to look a certain pornoified way.

right?!?!?! it's just saying ur ugly but with extra steps

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

acidreflux wrote:
body positivity is a sham
body neutrality is what it was supposed to be - like you can just exist w/o your body looking a certain way. it's a fucking meatbag.

and also saying oh your body is BEAUTIFUL and accept your FLAWS, like ..... why do i have flaws, why are they considered flaws? huhhhhh???
and plastic surgery is just another way men tell women they need to look a certain pornoified way.

this is . such a good point tho like
the idea of accepting ur flaws inherently designates some features as flaws and not others. idk i think there's smth about someone saying "i love [x 'undesirable' trait] despite everything!" that also somehow suggests that that trait isnt . actually . smth to love or whatever

idk just. love body neutrality. would love to not shave my legs and not be called either gross or brave for it and just b left alone about it

Private
Popstar

Koolaid wrote:
i feel like a lot of modern movements (body positivity, fat positivity, etc.) are just you're ugly but with extra steps

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
i feel like a lot of modern movements (body positivity, fat positivity, etc.) are just you're ugly but with extra steps

its like saying "ur ugly but if u buy this eyeshadow pallette and these facial mists and those shaping shorts and spend at least 2-3 hours a day maintaining ur aesthetic then u might be considered less ugly, maybe even not ugly if u spend enough money"

Account deleted

wrote:

Kit wrote:

acidreflux wrote:
body positivity is a sham
body neutrality is what it was supposed to be - like you can just exist w/o your body looking a certain way. it's a fucking meatbag.

and also saying oh your body is BEAUTIFUL and accept your FLAWS, like ..... why do i have flaws, why are they considered flaws? huhhhhh???
and plastic surgery is just another way men tell women they need to look a certain pornoified way.

this is . such a good point tho like
the idea of accepting ur flaws inherently designates some features as flaws and not others. idk i think there's smth about someone saying "i love [x 'undesirable' trait] despite everything!" that also somehow suggests that that trait isnt . actually . smth to love or whatever

idk just. love body neutrality. would love to not shave my legs and not be called either gross or brave for it and just b left alone about it

i get called so much shit sometimes when i go out, i haven't shaved in 5 years, not a single time and ppl always either have to comment on it or throw me looks like. sorry i'm comfortable in my own body and doesn't feel the extensive need to perform femininity for others.

Private
Popstar

Koolaid wrote:

Kit wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
i feel like a lot of modern movements (body positivity, fat positivity, etc.) are just you're ugly but with extra steps

its like saying "ur ugly but if u buy this eyeshadow pallette and these facial mists and those shaping shorts and spend at least 2-3 hours a day maintaining ur aesthetic then u might be considered less ugly, maybe even not ugly if u spend enough money"

omgg at that point just call me fucking ugly idc!!
also when ppl comments under posts 'omg ur so brave!' when you post a bikini selfie... oof just cuss me out at that point

Account deleted

wrote:

Kit wrote:

Koolaid wrote:
i feel like a lot of modern movements (body positivity, fat positivity, etc.) are just you're ugly but with extra steps

its like saying "ur ugly but if u buy this eyeshadow pallette and these facial mists and those shaping shorts and spend at least 2-3 hours a day maintaining ur aesthetic then u might be considered less ugly, maybe even not ugly if u spend enough money"

it's a capitalistic sham to shame women into buying products by brands that all have male ceos.

it's the same when ppl say "you're not ugly, just broke". money can buy you higher status, less "harassment" but at what price? to be clothed in your own oppression and selfhatred? no thanks