question for the theys/gays - Forum

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:
Yes I just rlly don't get the point of calling urself a lesbian, at least if ur nor female passing at all

yea i can see how that's ur perspectve from the outside looking in (not a bad thing!) but i guess it's important to remember that someones gender, their identity and sexuality and all of those internal feelings & their sense of self doesn't always have to correlate to their expression or with whether or not they "pass" to you ? and what constitutes "passing" for you may look different to what "passing" is for other people ? you might be able to guess or assume, but you can not definitively know someone's gender by looking at them, you can only know that by asking them & listening

i guess an example i'd use is like, a binary trans woman who knows she's trans, is attracted to women and identifies as a lesbian, but hasn't yet started her social or medical transition. she "looks like" a cis man and is not "female passing" but she's a woman and a lesbian still right ? like there is no automatic connection between someone's personal, felt and lived gender/sexual identity, and whether or not you personally can immediately identify them as that just by looking at them for 0.2 seconds i guess

In the example, why would any lesbian even be with them, cus I assume the point of lesbianism is woman+woman, not woman+ not transitioned man. Like thats just a man on the outside n idk seems counterintuitive to like a man looking person if u r a lesbian

idk ? i can't speak for everyone ofc but i think

a. many cis lesbians would agree with u ! acidreflux for example also seems to think that vagina = woman & like... none of us on this godforsaken dress up website is the authority on queer issues or lesbianism so all i can offer is my perspective

b. i wonder how important it is that u understand the intricacies of people's identities? like it seems to me that you're probably not interested in sleeping with any self-identified lesbian because as you said you're straight, so i don't really know why it matters this much to you? not that its a bad thing idk curiosity is good! good to ask questions! but i think it's important to understand that it's not like... the end of the world if you simply don't understand it? that's ok!

c. i think my perspective (and many nonbinary lesbians' perspectives) are different on gender and sex and sexuality than yours are! that's also not the end of the world! but it's really, really important to understand and accept that a "non-transitioned" amab trans woman is never a "non-transitioned man" she's still a woman. even if she has a body that we think of as "man" she is a woman. that doesn't mean that everyone who is attracted to women has to be attracted to her (i'm also not attracted to every woman i meet!) but she's still a woman

Private
Popstar

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:
yea i can see how that's ur perspectve from the outside looking in (not a bad thing!) but i guess it's important to remember that someones gender, their identity and sexuality and all of those internal feelings & their sense of self doesn't always have to correlate to their expression or with whether or not they "pass" to you ? and what constitutes "passing" for you may look different to what "passing" is for other people ? you might be able to guess or assume, but you can not definitively know someone's gender by looking at them, you can only know that by asking them & listening

i guess an example i'd use is like, a binary trans woman who knows she's trans, is attracted to women and identifies as a lesbian, but hasn't yet started her social or medical transition. she "looks like" a cis man and is not "female passing" but she's a woman and a lesbian still right ? like there is no automatic connection between someone's personal, felt and lived gender/sexual identity, and whether or not you personally can immediately identify them as that just by looking at them for 0.2 seconds i guess

In the example, why would any lesbian even be with them, cus I assume the point of lesbianism is woman+woman, not woman+ not transitioned man. Like thats just a man on the outside n idk seems counterintuitive to like a man looking person if u r a lesbian

idk ? i can't speak for everyone ofc but i think

a. many cis lesbians would agree with u ! acidreflux for example also seems to think that vagina = woman & like... none of us on this godforsaken dress up website is the authority on queer issues or lesbianism so all i can offer is my perspective

b. i wonder how important it is that u understand the intricacies of people's identities? like it seems to me that you're probably not interested in sleeping with any self-identified lesbian because as you said you're straight, so i don't really know why it matters this much to you? not that its a bad thing idk curiosity is good! good to ask questions! but i think it's important to understand that it's not like... the end of the world if you simply don't understand it? that's ok!

c. i think my perspective (and many nonbinary lesbians' perspectives) are different on gender and sex and sexuality than yours are! that's also not the end of the world! but it's really, really important to understand and accept that a "non-transitioned" amab trans woman is never a "non-transitioned man" she's still a woman. even if she has a body that we think of as "man" she is a woman. that doesn't mean that everyone who is attracted to women has to be attracted to her (i'm also not attracted to every woman i meet!) but she's still a woman

Hmm yes I am just bored. But when it comes to like genital talk, idk, I don't rlly understand whats the difference of being bi and being lesbian (if u like both genitals anyway). How is that not just being bi, tho mby woman-romantic if u get. I assume thats why they call themselves lesbian anyway, cus they only romantically like women. But das why it gets confusing to me cus I think of being straight/lesbian/bi as a whole is abt genitals AND gender identity, and not just gender identity

Account deleted

wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:
In the example, why would any lesbian even be with them, cus I assume the point of lesbianism is woman+woman, not woman+ not transitioned man. Like thats just a man on the outside n idk seems counterintuitive to like a man looking person if u r a lesbian

idk ? i can't speak for everyone ofc but i think

a. many cis lesbians would agree with u ! acidreflux for example also seems to think that vagina = woman & like... none of us on this godforsaken dress up website is the authority on queer issues or lesbianism so all i can offer is my perspective

b. i wonder how important it is that u understand the intricacies of people's identities? like it seems to me that you're probably not interested in sleeping with any self-identified lesbian because as you said you're straight, so i don't really know why it matters this much to you? not that its a bad thing idk curiosity is good! good to ask questions! but i think it's important to understand that it's not like... the end of the world if you simply don't understand it? that's ok!

c. i think my perspective (and many nonbinary lesbians' perspectives) are different on gender and sex and sexuality than yours are! that's also not the end of the world! but it's really, really important to understand and accept that a "non-transitioned" amab trans woman is never a "non-transitioned man" she's still a woman. even if she has a body that we think of as "man" she is a woman. that doesn't mean that everyone who is attracted to women has to be attracted to her (i'm also not attracted to every woman i meet!) but she's still a woman

Hmm yes I am just bored. But when it comes to like genital talk, idk, I don't rlly understand whats the difference of being bi and being lesbian (if u like both genitals anyway). How is that not just being bi, tho mby woman-romantic if u get. I assume thats why they call themselves lesbian anyway, cus they only romantically like women. But das why it gets confusing to me cus I think of being straight/lesbian/bi as a whole is abt genitals AND gender identity, and not just gender identity

lesbians dont do dick
it's the only sexual attraction that doesn't include males lol.

Private
Popstar

ouch wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:
idk ? i can't speak for everyone ofc but i think

a. many cis lesbians would agree with u ! acidreflux for example also seems to think that vagina = woman & like... none of us on this godforsaken dress up website is the authority on queer issues or lesbianism so all i can offer is my perspective

b. i wonder how important it is that u understand the intricacies of people's identities? like it seems to me that you're probably not interested in sleeping with any self-identified lesbian because as you said you're straight, so i don't really know why it matters this much to you? not that its a bad thing idk curiosity is good! good to ask questions! but i think it's important to understand that it's not like... the end of the world if you simply don't understand it? that's ok!

c. i think my perspective (and many nonbinary lesbians' perspectives) are different on gender and sex and sexuality than yours are! that's also not the end of the world! but it's really, really important to understand and accept that a "non-transitioned" amab trans woman is never a "non-transitioned man" she's still a woman. even if she has a body that we think of as "man" she is a woman. that doesn't mean that everyone who is attracted to women has to be attracted to her (i'm also not attracted to every woman i meet!) but she's still a woman

Hmm yes I am just bored. But when it comes to like genital talk, idk, I don't rlly understand whats the difference of being bi and being lesbian (if u like both genitals anyway). How is that not just being bi, tho mby woman-romantic if u get. I assume thats why they call themselves lesbian anyway, cus they only romantically like women. But das why it gets confusing to me cus I think of being straight/lesbian/bi as a whole is abt genitals AND gender identity, and not just gender identity

lesbians dont do dick
it's the only sexual attraction that doesn't include males lol.

Yes same as I don't do vagina, n I think u wouldn't b straight either like "fully" from how I think abt it at least if I liked vagina too, or was ok w it at least

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:
In the example, why would any lesbian even be with them, cus I assume the point of lesbianism is woman+woman, not woman+ not transitioned man. Like thats just a man on the outside n idk seems counterintuitive to like a man looking person if u r a lesbian

idk ? i can't speak for everyone ofc but i think

a. many cis lesbians would agree with u ! acidreflux for example also seems to think that vagina = woman & like... none of us on this godforsaken dress up website is the authority on queer issues or lesbianism so all i can offer is my perspective

b. i wonder how important it is that u understand the intricacies of people's identities? like it seems to me that you're probably not interested in sleeping with any self-identified lesbian because as you said you're straight, so i don't really know why it matters this much to you? not that its a bad thing idk curiosity is good! good to ask questions! but i think it's important to understand that it's not like... the end of the world if you simply don't understand it? that's ok!

c. i think my perspective (and many nonbinary lesbians' perspectives) are different on gender and sex and sexuality than yours are! that's also not the end of the world! but it's really, really important to understand and accept that a "non-transitioned" amab trans woman is never a "non-transitioned man" she's still a woman. even if she has a body that we think of as "man" she is a woman. that doesn't mean that everyone who is attracted to women has to be attracted to her (i'm also not attracted to every woman i meet!) but she's still a woman

Hmm yes I am just bored. But when it comes to like genital talk, idk, I don't rlly understand whats the difference of being bi and being lesbian (if u like both genitals anyway). How is that not just being bi, tho mby woman-romantic if u get. I assume thats why they call themselves lesbian anyway, cus they only romantically like women. But das why it gets confusing to me cus I think of being straight/lesbian/bi as a whole is abt genitals AND gender identity, and not just gender identity

yea and that makes sense too! it's different for everybody like i said, if u look at acidreflux's posts you will see that for some lesbians it really is about just genitals ! and for some people it's really just about gender identity. and i think that for most lesbians it's a bit about both !

the problem is in policing other people which is where i can get kinda opinionated and annoying. because nonbinary lesbians aren't calling cis lesbians who only want to sleep with cis women "fake" or "not real lesbians" but the opposite definitely is happening. and i think people need to live and let live a little. it's different for everyone and we as a community will probably never arrive at a rigid definition of "lesbian" that is fully accurate and inclusive. it's different for everyone, and thats okay

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:
idk ? i can't speak for everyone ofc but i think

a. many cis lesbians would agree with u ! acidreflux for example also seems to think that vagina = woman & like... none of us on this godforsaken dress up website is the authority on queer issues or lesbianism so all i can offer is my perspective

b. i wonder how important it is that u understand the intricacies of people's identities? like it seems to me that you're probably not interested in sleeping with any self-identified lesbian because as you said you're straight, so i don't really know why it matters this much to you? not that its a bad thing idk curiosity is good! good to ask questions! but i think it's important to understand that it's not like... the end of the world if you simply don't understand it? that's ok!

c. i think my perspective (and many nonbinary lesbians' perspectives) are different on gender and sex and sexuality than yours are! that's also not the end of the world! but it's really, really important to understand and accept that a "non-transitioned" amab trans woman is never a "non-transitioned man" she's still a woman. even if she has a body that we think of as "man" she is a woman. that doesn't mean that everyone who is attracted to women has to be attracted to her (i'm also not attracted to every woman i meet!) but she's still a woman

Hmm yes I am just bored. But when it comes to like genital talk, idk, I don't rlly understand whats the difference of being bi and being lesbian (if u like both genitals anyway). How is that not just being bi, tho mby woman-romantic if u get. I assume thats why they call themselves lesbian anyway, cus they only romantically like women. But das why it gets confusing to me cus I think of being straight/lesbian/bi as a whole is abt genitals AND gender identity, and not just gender identity

lesbians dont do dick
it's the only sexual attraction that doesn't include males lol.

its such a relief that ur not the final or absolute authority on lesbian, queer, and wlw issues lol very sexy thank u God

Account deleted

wrote:

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:
idk ? i can't speak for everyone ofc but i think

a. many cis lesbians would agree with u ! acidreflux for example also seems to think that vagina = woman & like... none of us on this godforsaken dress up website is the authority on queer issues or lesbianism so all i can offer is my perspective

b. i wonder how important it is that u understand the intricacies of people's identities? like it seems to me that you're probably not interested in sleeping with any self-identified lesbian because as you said you're straight, so i don't really know why it matters this much to you? not that its a bad thing idk curiosity is good! good to ask questions! but i think it's important to understand that it's not like... the end of the world if you simply don't understand it? that's ok!

c. i think my perspective (and many nonbinary lesbians' perspectives) are different on gender and sex and sexuality than yours are! that's also not the end of the world! but it's really, really important to understand and accept that a "non-transitioned" amab trans woman is never a "non-transitioned man" she's still a woman. even if she has a body that we think of as "man" she is a woman. that doesn't mean that everyone who is attracted to women has to be attracted to her (i'm also not attracted to every woman i meet!) but she's still a woman

Hmm yes I am just bored. But when it comes to like genital talk, idk, I don't rlly understand whats the difference of being bi and being lesbian (if u like both genitals anyway). How is that not just being bi, tho mby woman-romantic if u get. I assume thats why they call themselves lesbian anyway, cus they only romantically like women. But das why it gets confusing to me cus I think of being straight/lesbian/bi as a whole is abt genitals AND gender identity, and not just gender identity

yea and that makes sense too! it's different for everybody like i said, if u look at acidreflux's posts you will see that for some lesbians it really is about just genitals ! and for some people it's really just about gender identity. and i think that for most lesbians it's a bit about both !

the problem is in policing other people which is where i can get kinda opinionated and annoying. because nonbinary lesbians aren't calling cis lesbians who only want to sleep with cis women "fake" or "not real lesbians" but the opposite definitely is happening. and i think people need to live and let live a little. it's different for everyone and we as a community will probably never arrive at a rigid definition of "lesbian" that is fully inclusive. it's different for everyone, and thats okay

so i'm policing ppl's sexualities by stating actual facts ... and not buying into the gender identity trumps sex? kek.

Account deleted

wrote:

Kit wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

ouch wrote:
Hmm yes I am just bored. But when it comes to like genital talk, idk, I don't rlly understand whats the difference of being bi and being lesbian (if u like both genitals anyway). How is that not just being bi, tho mby woman-romantic if u get. I assume thats why they call themselves lesbian anyway, cus they only romantically like women. But das why it gets confusing to me cus I think of being straight/lesbian/bi as a whole is abt genitals AND gender identity, and not just gender identity

lesbians dont do dick
it's the only sexual attraction that doesn't include males lol.

its such a relief that ur not the final or absolute authority on lesbian, queer, and wlw issues lol very sexy thank u God

and u are? ok

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

acidreflux wrote:

Kit wrote:

acidreflux wrote:
lesbians dont do dick
it's the only sexual attraction that doesn't include males lol.

its such a relief that ur not the final or absolute authority on lesbian, queer, and wlw issues lol very sexy thank u God

and u are? ok

no lol and im not trying to be ? im sharing my perspective ! and im not out here invalidating ur identity. im not saying ur not a real lesbian ! u are ! good for u ! i'm just saying your perspective & experience isnt universal ! like if you read my posts u will see that i have respect for your position, your attraction, and how you experience your own sexuality, i just don't respect you stating your opinions as "facts" when it's an ongoing debate in the community and there is really no consensus or "truth" on the subject

Private
Popstar

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:
idk ? i can't speak for everyone ofc but i think

a. many cis lesbians would agree with u ! acidreflux for example also seems to think that vagina = woman & like... none of us on this godforsaken dress up website is the authority on queer issues or lesbianism so all i can offer is my perspective

b. i wonder how important it is that u understand the intricacies of people's identities? like it seems to me that you're probably not interested in sleeping with any self-identified lesbian because as you said you're straight, so i don't really know why it matters this much to you? not that its a bad thing idk curiosity is good! good to ask questions! but i think it's important to understand that it's not like... the end of the world if you simply don't understand it? that's ok!

c. i think my perspective (and many nonbinary lesbians' perspectives) are different on gender and sex and sexuality than yours are! that's also not the end of the world! but it's really, really important to understand and accept that a "non-transitioned" amab trans woman is never a "non-transitioned man" she's still a woman. even if she has a body that we think of as "man" she is a woman. that doesn't mean that everyone who is attracted to women has to be attracted to her (i'm also not attracted to every woman i meet!) but she's still a woman

Hmm yes I am just bored. But when it comes to like genital talk, idk, I don't rlly understand whats the difference of being bi and being lesbian (if u like both genitals anyway). How is that not just being bi, tho mby woman-romantic if u get. I assume thats why they call themselves lesbian anyway, cus they only romantically like women. But das why it gets confusing to me cus I think of being straight/lesbian/bi as a whole is abt genitals AND gender identity, and not just gender identity

yea and that makes sense too! it's different for everybody like i said, if u look at acidreflux's posts you will see that for some lesbians it really is about just genitals ! and for some people it's really just about gender identity. and i think that for most lesbians it's a bit about both !

the problem is in policing other people which is where i can get kinda opinionated and annoying. because nonbinary lesbians aren't calling cis lesbians who only want to sleep with cis women "fake" or "not real lesbians" but the opposite definitely is happening. and i think people need to live and let live a little. it's different for everyone and we as a community will probably never arrive at a rigid definition of "lesbian" that is fully accurate and inclusive. it's different for everyone, and thats okay

Im fine w them calling themselves lesbians like it doesn't affect me but still I am confused tho why u would want to identify as that. But idk man. It only gets bad for me if ppl r saying u r transphobic if u care abt genitalia too or ppls body over all, u get

Kit
National Star

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:
Hmm yes I am just bored. But when it comes to like genital talk, idk, I don't rlly understand whats the difference of being bi and being lesbian (if u like both genitals anyway). How is that not just being bi, tho mby woman-romantic if u get. I assume thats why they call themselves lesbian anyway, cus they only romantically like women. But das why it gets confusing to me cus I think of being straight/lesbian/bi as a whole is abt genitals AND gender identity, and not just gender identity

yea and that makes sense too! it's different for everybody like i said, if u look at acidreflux's posts you will see that for some lesbians it really is about just genitals ! and for some people it's really just about gender identity. and i think that for most lesbians it's a bit about both !

the problem is in policing other people which is where i can get kinda opinionated and annoying. because nonbinary lesbians aren't calling cis lesbians who only want to sleep with cis women "fake" or "not real lesbians" but the opposite definitely is happening. and i think people need to live and let live a little. it's different for everyone and we as a community will probably never arrive at a rigid definition of "lesbian" that is fully accurate and inclusive. it's different for everyone, and thats okay

Im fine w them calling themselves lesbians like it doesn't affect me but still I am confused tho why u would want to identify as that. But idk man. It only gets bad for me if ppl r saying u r transphobic if u care abt genitalia too or ppls body over all, u get

yeah i get that too ! idk it's really not my position as a cis person to say smth isn't transphobic, and i do think that especially among cis lesbians/radical feminists/"gender critical" terfs, there really is also a lot of rampant transphobia?

because like saying "i personally do not want to sleep with someone with a penis" is not transphobic imo, but saying "you can't be a woman if you have a penis" absolutely is? like for me the line is drawn when you stop talking about your own experience and attraction and start deciding how other people can/cannot identify, or what they are. like almost all the monosexual gay or lesbian people i know in my real life are also attracted to some nonbinary people, and attracted to binary trans people based on their gender and not their sex, so that's the "definition" of lesbianism that i use and hold to. but that doesnt give me the right to call lesbians who are exclusively attracted to people with vaginas "fake lesbians" because that's rude and also not really any of my business ya know

Account deleted

wrote:
all of this feels like i'm taking a math exam

Account deleted

wrote:

Heaven wrote:
all of this feels like i'm taking a math exam

yes lmao

Private
Popstar

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:

ouch wrote:

Kit wrote:
yea and that makes sense too! it's different for everybody like i said, if u look at acidreflux's posts you will see that for some lesbians it really is about just genitals ! and for some people it's really just about gender identity. and i think that for most lesbians it's a bit about both !

the problem is in policing other people which is where i can get kinda opinionated and annoying. because nonbinary lesbians aren't calling cis lesbians who only want to sleep with cis women "fake" or "not real lesbians" but the opposite definitely is happening. and i think people need to live and let live a little. it's different for everyone and we as a community will probably never arrive at a rigid definition of "lesbian" that is fully accurate and inclusive. it's different for everyone, and thats okay

Im fine w them calling themselves lesbians like it doesn't affect me but still I am confused tho why u would want to identify as that. But idk man. It only gets bad for me if ppl r saying u r transphobic if u care abt genitalia too or ppls body over all, u get

yeah i get that too ! idk it's really not my position as a cis person to say smth isn't transphobic, and i do think that especially among cis lesbians/radical feminists/"gender critical" terfs, there really is also a lot of rampant transphobia?

because like saying "i personally do not want to sleep with someone with a penis" is not transphobic imo, but saying "you can't be a woman if you have a penis" absolutely is? like for me the line is drawn when you stop talking about your own experience and attraction and start deciding how other people can/cannot identify, or what they are. like almost all the monosexual gay or lesbian people i know in my real life are also attracted to some nonbinary people, and attracted to binary trans people based on their gender and not their sex, so that's the "definition" of lesbianism that i use and hold to. but that doesnt give me the right to call lesbians who are exclusively attracted to people with vaginas "fake lesbians" because that's rude and also not really any of my business ya know

Yeah no I agree

Account deleted

wrote:
i blame american q**er theorists for this