societal ideas we need to abolish..... - Forum

Anachronism
National Star

Anachronism wrote:

ouch wrote:

Anachronism wrote:
Also do we have the right to tell woman what is and is not empowering? If a female sex worker feels empowered by it it's just not my place to judge. Honestly kinda hate how prostitution abolition advocates have a tendency to treat women in the field like battered victims who need to be saved I find that kinda demeaning

I think its more so that more and more ppl r putting their stuff on onlyfans and stuff like that cus its empowering or whatever, but without thinking it through, what consequenses there could be etc, when its become practically a trend

Eh honestly think its because in most societies woman are primarily valued for their beauty so theres a lot of profit in that

Some ppl argue that sex work is empowering because you're having power over the dude and they're handing you their money, but at the end of the day it is a job and they have power over your body even if you get paid for it so I dont exactly agree

Tho there are some woman who have other options, enjoy what they do and do find the profit empowering. They're not children so it isnt my right to tell them they're wrong lol

In my ideal world there would be no such thing as sex work.. there would just be sex and porn as a form of art and expression. But in my ideal world everything would be voluntary and no one would be exploited for their labor

Lean
Streetmusician

lean wrote:
i'm anti sex work for a couple reasons tbh.
one i don't support men being able to control women and their bodies; in that regard i'm more anti john.
and the narrative that exists that sex work is empowering and easy and rewarding (more for like... OF not FSSW) can be extremely harmful to women but there's no room for nuance because if you disagree or have a different opinion you're a misogynist or a prude.
i have .... a lot of feelings about sex positive feminism.

this was worrded slopily and wasn't in depth as i want it to be, i'm too tired to think very critically.

Anachronism
National Star

Anachronism wrote:

lean wrote:
i'm anti sex work for a couple reasons tbh.
one i don't support men being able to control women and their bodies; in that regard i'm more anti john.
and the narrative that exists that sex work is empowering and easy and rewarding (more for like... OF not FSSW) can be extremely harmful to women but there's no room for nuance because if you disagree or have a different opinion you're a misogynist or a prude.
i have .... a lot of feelings about sex positive feminism.

this was worrded slopily and wasn't in depth as i want it to be, i'm too tired to think very critically.

Yeah I mean call girls- woman who are their own bosses- have a lot more autonomy and freedom than girls controlled by a brothel or a John or pimp. Many have the right to say no to gross calls, tho there are those who are drug addicts and/or poor and have to be controlled in order to support themselves unfortunately.

I actually dont disagree at all that its harmful to create a narrative that sex work is empowering. Tho I really am not on board with swerf rhetoric or ideas for two reasons:

1) I dont think the abolishment of sex work is realistic, at least in current times. I seem to disagree with a lot of swerfs because they view sex work as a problem in and of itself whereas I think capitalism is the crux of the problem. Until capitalism is abolished I doubt the sex trade will be.

2) as much as I hate people telling young woman its "empowering" I am not going to tell a woman in the trade that they are deluded if they feel empowered earning thousands for an erotic photo. Let woman decide for themselves how to feel about their choices. That goes for both pro and anti camps.

Tho I do wish the women who are privileged in the field would work a little harder to gain equality for the women who dont have their advantage.

I dont consider myself pro sex work btw. I'm pro sex worker rights. Does that make sense?

Anachronism
National Star

Anachronism wrote:
Sorry that post is tl;dr

In sum:

I'm pro sex workers rights and not pro sex work, I dont think its realistic to abolish sex work in a capitalist society. I think abolishing capitalism is a better thing to focus on along side providing more rights and protections for those in the trade. No one should tell woman if what they do is empowering or not empowering that's their call.

Also fuck pimps and johns

Murdurur
National Star

murdurur wrote:

Anachronism wrote:
Sorry that post is tl;dr

In sum:

I'm pro sex workers rights and not pro sex work, I dont think its realistic to abolish sex work in a capitalist society. I think abolishing capitalism is a better thing to focus on along side providing more rights and protections for those in the trade. No one should tell woman if what they do is empowering or not empowering that's their call.

Also fuck pimps and johns

agree mostly. i think for most people it seems intuitively easier to focus on sex work first rather than capitalism because sex work is a smaller appendage to a whole ass integrated shit system. i also agree sex workers rights are important, but there are some nuances i guess. i don't think some girl from the suburbs selling sexy pictures is really comparable to women who are forced into physically meeting up with clients in order to survive and i hate it when people lump the two together as the same thing. sure, i guess some women might feel empowered by doing the former (i will never understand this but it is how it is) but i can't see any way that empoweredness could apply to some 14 year old girl being pimped out in the phillipines or whatever.

so yeah i guess what i'm trying to say also is that onlyfans girls should still be treated with respect like everyone else, but i really think we need to get rid of the whole narrative that having an onlyfans in the first place is great and epic and that a girl should look forward to her 18th bday for the sole purpose of profiting of off her body. i think it's v damaging to teen girls and i also think a lot of 18 year old girls aren't really mature enough to decide if doing sex work is really safe to their health or a good choice for the long term. i know i certainly would not have been.

Hungover
National Star

hungover wrote:

Sobbing wrote:

INFP wrote:
capitalism in general has to be cleansed from people's minds

real communism will never work
what other societal structures do you find would work out? as much as i hate capitalism, what else would work

But how does capitalism work, when billions of people are suffering every single minute of the day BECAUSE of capitalism?

Hungover
National Star

hungover wrote:

murdurur wrote:
also we need to bring back kink shaming ASAP

We should just stop acting like kink-shaming is some unforgivable act, I will shame people who defend pedophilia til the day I die lmao.

Hungover
National Star

hungover wrote:
Speaking of sex work, can we talk about how normal it has become to basically groom underage girls into creating an only fans the SECOND they turn 18? That's so icky, creepy and predatory.